The Assembly met by video-conference at 13:32 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Welcome, all, to this Plenary session. Before we begin, I want to clarify a few points. A Plenary meeting held by video conference in accordance with the Standing Orders of the National Assembly for Wales constitutes proceedings of the Assembly for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Having consulted with the Business Committee, some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today’s Plenary meeting and these are noted on the agenda. I would remind Members that Standing Orders relating to order and the organisation of business in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting.

1. Business Statement and Announcement

The first item on the agenda this afternoon is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the First Minister to make that statement.

Mark Drakeford AC: Diolch, Llywydd. There are several changes to today's agenda: statements from the Ministers for Health and Social Services and Economy, Transport and North Wales have been added; my statement has been extended to 45 minutes; and, finally, the debate on the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) Regulations 2020 has been postponed until next week, when they can be debated alongside amending regulations.Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

2. Statement by the First Minister: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Thank you, First Minister. The first item of business, therefore, is a statement by the First Minister on coronavirus and I call on the First Minister to make the statement.

Mark Drakeford AC: I would like to update Members on the latest steps taken as the Government responds to the coronavirus crisis.
We have continued to announce financial support to support individuals and services in responding to this crisis. We are still working very closely with partners in local government, the health service and all other public services in order to ensure that all necessary support is in place. We are extremely grateful to the people of Wales for following the important advice to protect everyone’s health. We are also starting to plan for the future when we will come out of this current situation. We will be looking closely at the evidence before making any changes. We will draw in new ideas to help us with this important work.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, coronavirus is both a public health crisis and an economic crisis. The Ministers primarily responsible for these two portfolio areas will make statements this afternoon about the actions the Welsh Government is taking in response to the virus.There are very few areas of public life that have not been touched by coronavirus, and this afternoon, I will focus on the measures we are taking across other portfolios.
Llywydd, many aspects of housing have been affected, from concerns about people with no home to live in, to people travelling into Wales to their second homes. Since the Senedd last met, we have provided comprehensive advice about the support available for tenants in Wales, including information about benefits, help with rent, bill payments and debt. We’ve provided information to landlords and agents in the private rented sector and guidance to local authorities about how they can continue to enforce standards in rented properties to keep people safe.
We continue to receive weekly reports from chief constables across Wales on the enforcement of regulations. Let me be clear again: travelling to a second home is not an essential journey, and police in Wales are and will stop people attempting to do so.
In social care, we have provided an extra £40 million to support adult social care services to meet the increased costs that the sector is facing. This funding comes directly from our own budget and is part of the £1.1 billion fighting fund we have created to support public services to respond to coronavirus.
I know that many Members have raised concerns about people who have opted for direct payments and employ their own personal assistants, and since the Senedd last met, we have provided specific information for people in that position. Social Care Wales has launched a card for all social care workers to help identify them as critical care workers, and so to access the help and assistance available to them.
Llywydd, education and childcare have been hugely impacted by the virus. We have issued guidance to critical care workers and parents of vulnerable children about how they can get the help that they need in the current circumstances, and we are implementing the extended childcare offer for children of key workers announced by Julie Morgan on 6 April. For many young people, this is a time of distress and anxiety. The Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams, has announced £1.25 million of additional funding to provide extra mental health support for children, helping school counselling services to deal with an anticipated increase in demand. The Minister has also confirmed that A-level and AS-levels results day will be as originally scheduled on 13 August, and on 20 August for GCSEs—the same dates, therefore, as will obtain in both Northern Ireland and England.
Yesterday, Llywydd, Wales became the first UK nation to confirm additional funding to guarantee free school meals for children during the pandemic. Thirty three million pounds will be made available as additional help to local authorities in this vital area.
Two weeks ago, the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths, answered questions in the Senedd. She has continued to meet with industry representatives from Wales’s farming, fishing, forestry, environment and food and drink sectors to discuss their specific challenges. A new grant is now available to support fishing businesses to cover the fixed costs associated with owning a fishing vessel, and the Welsh Government has launched a bespoke online service to match employers with people looking for work in the agriculture, land or veterinary sectors. That service will help to fill vacancies in the coming months, addressing labour shortages caused by the virus outbreak.
Llywydd, I’d like to end by turning to the future. Last Thursday, the four Governments of the United Kingdom agreed that the current stay-at-home restrictions must continue for at least a further three weeks. Now is not the moment to throw away all the efforts we have made, especially as there are signs of them beginning to bear fruit. But it is really important to stress that the threat from coronavirus is far from over. Sadly, lives will still be lost in the days to come, and I know that all Members will want to pause a moment to remember the 600 people and more who are no longer with us and the grief and distress that this continues to cause to those who are closest to them.
Now, any decision to ease restrictions will only be made when the medical and scientific evidence is clear that the time is right to do so. The process in Wales will be careful, cautious and gradual. There can be no sudden return to the way of life we enjoyed before the pandemic began. And Llywydd, when I made my first statement to the Senedd under our new arrangements, we still faced the realistic anxiety that coronavirus might accelerate its spread in Wales to a point when our NHS could have been overwhelmed. That this has not happened is a tribute to the enormous work that has gone on in such a rapid period to extend the capacity of the service and the efforts that Welsh citizens have made to reduce the circulation of the virus in the community. Today, the number of patients in Welsh hospitals because of coronavirus has stabled and the number of new admissions is falling. Over half our extended critical care capacity is still available. More than 3,000 acute hospital beds are in the same position, and both figures have improved again over the last few days. It is because of that platform that has been created that we can now use the weeks ahead to prepare; to agree a common set of objective measures to identify the point at which it is safe to begin lifting restrictions. These measures will tell us when the time is right to move beyond the current position.
There will be a risk that the virus will begin to circulate again. We need to set out strong public health surveillance measures so that if there are local outbreaks, we can identify them quickly and respond effectively. In Wales, we have retained a national public health service with a strong local presence and we must use this as the basis of our response. We must also learn from international experience. There are already countries in Europe and beyond where restrictions are being lifted. We will use the next few weeks to learn from what works and what might not work elsewhere in the world.
Llywydd, finally, we will also use that period to plan for Wales's future beyond coronavirus by drawing in expertise and experience from outside Government. We will establish a group of people from inside Wales and beyond to challenge our thinking, to contribute new ideas, and so to help us plan for recovery. We have put our framework for doing so in place and I look forward to discussing that plan and that path to the future with the Senedd in the weeks ahead.

Before I call on the leader of the opposition, just to say that I'm aware that a Member wishes to raise a point of order. I'll take all points of order at the end of the statements, so no visual aids are required. Paul Davies.

Paul Davies AC: Thank you, Llywydd. Can I thank the First Minister for his statement this afternoon? And can I echo your comments, First Minister, and convey my condolences to those families who have lost loved ones during this pandemic?
As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to be felt by families, communities and businesses across the country, it is vital that no stone is left unturned in identifying the threat and treating those who have been affected as soon as possible.The Welsh Government's announcement of a rapid review into Wales's testing system is a crucial step forward, not only to see where problems are arising in terms of administering the tests, but also in terms of making the process around it far more efficient. I appreciate that the health Minister will be making a statement on some of these issues later, but you are, of course, responsible for the overall Government strategy, therefore can you tell us what initial findings have been made from the Welsh Government's rapid review and what sort of timescales have been put in place to see any new changes to the system? We know that the target of 5,000 tests a day was not met by mid April, and it's very clear that nowhere near 9,000 tests will be taking place by the end of this month as originally promised. In fact, we know that on some days, far less than 1,000 tests a day have been carried out. So, to be blunt, First Minister, why are so few tests actually taking place and why has the Welsh Government failed to meet its targets, because it's important our key front-line workers are tested as quickly as possible in order to keep them safe? It's clear that there is capacity in the system that's just not being used to test key front-line workers, and community testing centres and drive-in centres across Wales are still not all fully operating. Therefore, can you tell us when you anticipate the opening of all testing centres for key workers so that we can at least get an idea of when testing will be taking place in all parts of Wales?
Now, at the start of this pandemic, I raised the importance of reaching those living and working in social care settings, and you made reference to this in your statement today, and it is regrettable that more hasn't been done earlier to tackle the impact of coronavirus in care homes across Wales. At the time, you said that there was a particular challenge in Wales, because the sector is dominated by small owners of one or two residential care homes, and so getting messages out to people is a bigger challenge when you have large numbers of people involved and people who may not necessarily be as attuned to dealing with demands as large companies, who are well set up and equipped to do this. Given that care home residents are at a heightened risk of serious complications from the virus and we are now seeing more reported cases in care homes, what specific action is the Welsh Government now taking to expedite support for those living and indeed working in the sector?
First Minister, the health Minister made clear yesterday that securing enough PPE is a bigger priority than the challenges on coronavirus testing. Now, you'll be aware that the Royal College of Nursing in Wales and indeed others are calling on the Welsh Government to commit to safeguarding supplies of PPE, as well as calling for the Government not to weaken the guidance to disguise shortages, and also to conduct a rapid audit across health boards to ensure that PPE is being distributed effectively to all care settings. It is unacceptable that 74 per cent of nursing staff have raised concerns about PPE and that over half of nursing staff have felt pressured to care for a patient without adequate protection. Therefore, could you confirm that the Welsh Government will now undertake a rapid audit of PPE across health boards in Wales, as well as confirm what action is being urgently taken to ensure that key workers in Wales all have access to the PPE that they need?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Paul Davies for those questions. Let me be clear that testing is taking place in all parts of Wales. Over 20,000 tests have been carried out in Wales during the coronavirus crisis. Forty per cent of those tests have been made available to front-line healthcare staff. There is more that needs to be done to simplify the process from which social care staff in particular can be identified and then offered testing at the different centres that we have, and that's one of the key conclusions of the rapid review that Paul Davies referred to. We need to simplify that process while still safeguarding essential safety aspects of the system. It is really important that the right person does turn up at the right time in the right place for the right test. It sounds easier than it is to get all of those things lined up when you have a very scattered population, all of whom have to be put through a certain level of assurance. But we did hear from the head of the Welsh Local Government Association today—some of us—that some of the immediate steps that have been taken are accelerating their ability to put forward social care staff for testing, and that more tests are being done as a result. The rapid review proposed that we should report weekly on the number of tests available, the number of tests being taken out, and the steps that are in place to increase that further week by week, and that's what we will be doing. There will be more tests available by the end of this week than there were at the end of last week, and I believe that we will have more people taking up those tests as we simplify the referral process.
Paul Davies, Llywydd, I thought set out very well some of the challenges that there are there in getting information and other aspects to the care home sector, given its nature here in Wales. But we are working closely with Care Forum Wales; I want to again just express my thanks to them for everything they are doing to strengthen their ability to get information to that front line. There is absolutely no suggestion anywhere that we are weakening the guidance. We were part of the rapid review of guidance that the UK Government led, which has resulted in an extended number of people in the care sector particularly becoming entitled to PPE, and we are observing and implementing that guidance here in Wales. As a result of all of that, we will have provided 48 million pieces of PPE from stores here in Wales—40 per cent of our pandemic store supplies going to social care. The struggle we have is to replenish those stocks in a globally competitive market. We know already where our stocks are and how much we have in reserve. We carry out regular exercises to make sure that we get the most up-to-date reports from across the system about stores that are being held, or different items in different parts of Wales. And as we draw down supplies that come into Wales from outside, we act as quickly as we can to make sure that those stores are dispersed to the different centres from which they are then onwardly transmitted to the 640 GP practices we have in Wales, the 715 pharmacies that we have in Wales, and the thousand or so care homes we have in Wales. Members will see that this is a huge logistical exercise and one that is taking an enormous amount of time, effort and commitment from dedicated people working in the health service and in local government right across Wales.

Paul Davies AC: Thank you for those responses, First Minister. As you've said in your statement today, whilst the coronavirus pandemic is an enormous global health challenge, it's also a significant economic challenge too. The financial support that has been available to most sectors has been generous and I'm sure it's greatly received by those recipients, however there are sectors like farming and tourism that feel left behind because support is either unavailable, inaccessible, or it simply just doesn't cover the needs of those working in those sectors. So, given that the Welsh farming industry is integral to Wales's economy, culture and, indeed, identity, what urgent steps are the Welsh Government taking to address the very real crisis faced by Welsh farmers, particularly dairy farmers, at this time, in order to protect the sustainability of Welsh farming for the future? Perhaps you could send a clear statement today to Welsh farmers, First Minister, by reinforcing the message that they are also key workers, and allowing them to access funding under the economic resilience fund.
Last week, the Welsh Government restricted the eligibility of those who could claim £10,000 in grant funding within the tourism sector. Whilst I understand that some second-home owners were taking advantage of the Welsh Government's previous flexibility, the revised guidance now means that many genuine small self-catering tourist operators across Wales may no longer be able to access this funding. First Minister, will you reconsider the position taken on this specific issue, so that small-scale self-catering tourist operators are able to receive support during this period, given the important role that they play in supporting the Welsh tourist industry?
Now, I appreciate that the rate of business applications has been unprecedented, and whilst we all welcome any support packages that are made available in Wales, I think there's some more work needed to fine-tune some of the packages on offer. For example, the Welsh fishing industry has told me that the support for them—and you make reference to this in your statement today—doesn't quite cover their costs, and that the eligibility for further support needs to be made fairer. Road haulage businesses, which still have to pay business rates, have made it clear that more needs to be done to support the distribution industry, which, as you know, is critical at this time in ensuring vital goods are able to be transported.
And, finally, tourism businesses are telling me that they feel the seasonality of their business is not being taken into account when designing some of the support schemes in place, and so they're falling between the gaps in accessing support because their business model doesn't quite fit the Government's assessment criteria. Therefore, what fine-tuning is the Welsh Government doing to better understand the diverse range of businesses in Wales, to ensure that each of the Government's business support packages is reaching those who actually need it?
Finally, can you tell us what support is being made available to those businesses that either aren't value added tax registered because their turnover isn't that big, are sole traders, or are operating small limited companies, because it seems as though these kinds of microbusinesses have not been considered when designing business support packages?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, the leader of the opposition has mentioned dairy farming, fishing, tourism, sole traders—I think there was another one in there too. I think all he is doing is illustrating the astonishing economic challenge that there is as a result of coronavirus. Haulage, I'm sorry, was another that he mentioned. All of those sectors, I know, are facing real challenges, and we could've added to that list many times over, I'm sure.
The Welsh Government's resources are limited. We are squeezing everything we can out of our existing budgets. We are passing on every penny of additional help that comes our way through the UK Government, and we are doing our best to design the additional help that we can provide in a way that is complementary to the help that the UK Government's schemes are offering to businesses here in Wales.
I'm, of course, very happy to put on record our recognition of everything that is being done by the farming community here in Wales and to recognise the particular challenges that dairy farmers are facing. Lesley Griffiths welcomed, on Friday of last week, the temporary lifting of some competition laws in the dairy industry to allow for a more planned way in which the milk that is being produced in the dairy industry can be used for places where milk is needed. In the meantime, we've produced guidance for dairy farmers in Wales, helping them to make sure that if, as a last resort, they have to dispense with the milk that they have without it going into the food chain, they can do that in the safest way possible.
As for the changes we have made to self-catering accommodation, I'm perfectly happy to say that we'll keep it under review, because it was a review of the evidence that led to Julie James announcing the changes that we have made. What the changes mean is that a tourist business, even a small-scale one, has to demonstrate that it is letting property for 140 days in a year. I really don't think that if that is the income that you are depending upon, it is unreasonable for you to show that for 140 days of the year that property is being occupied for tourism purposes, and then you have to demonstrate that the income you get represents a reasonable proportion of your total income.
The anxiety was—and I know Paul Davies will know this, because it's been raised by local authorities in south-west and north-west Wales—that a lot of public money was at risk of going into the pockets of people for whom this is a small and supplementary part of their income, not the income that they rely on to make their business a success. So, I think we have done the right thing, but I'm very happy to say that we will keep the evidence under review. And if fine-tuning is required, then we will return to that, and that is true of a number of the other things that Paul Davies mentioned. The fishing industry, for example—we've announced a scheme to make sure we can assist our fishing industry in Wales. If it needs to be fine-tuned, we'll need the evidence and we will look at that.
I'm very alert to the points that the leader of the opposition made about tourism in Wales. I know we've rehearsed it here before that the pattern in the tourism industry is that people invest in the winter and recoup those costs and make their businesses successful in the summer, and, as the weeks go by, that is putting a very particular strain on that business model. We are working hard alongside the tourism industry to try to do what we can to help.
On microbusinesses and the other points that Paul Davies ended with, in many ways those are gaps in the UK Government's schemes, and they have the major responsibilities here. We continue to engage with UK Ministers, and the Chancellor has shown the willingness to introduce new schemes and new measures where gaps in the original provision have emerged. Sole traders, microbusinesses: they remain an area where we need the UK Government to step in and offer the support that is needed.

Adam Price AC: I'd like to ask you about testing, First Minister. In England, two mega laboratories that have the capacity to conduct tens of thousands of tests per day are already operational, and a third one is going to be added in England soon. Scotland will have a mega lab by the end of this week. And, as set out in the UK Government's testing plan, Northern Ireland already has established a major laboratory at the headquarters of Randox Laboratories in County Antrim. So, we now are the only nation in these islands that has not seen a large-scale laboratory set up specifically in the context of the pandemic. Did you ask for a mega lab for Wales?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, we have the testing capacity we need in Wales. We have no problem in Wales in processing the tests that are being carried out. The capacity we have is adequate to deal with the tests we are currently conducting and we have plans to expand that capacity in the right way for Wales. We didn't need to go to anybody else to get advice on their solutions, when we have a solution that we are implementing in a way that meets our needs and is right for Welsh circumstances.

Adam Price AC: First Minister, how can you say that we have the necessary capacity when you've missed your own targets on tests three times in three weeks and now you've scrapped them? Let's talk about the capacity for testing within Wales. It's almost six weeks since scientists at Cardiff University wrote to Welsh Government offering their expertise in conducting tests here in Wales. Almost six weeks later, those hundreds of scientists—and by the way I spoke to one of them this morning—and their laboratories haven't had the go ahead, haven't had the accreditation, to conduct a single test on a key worker here in Wales. Is it any wonder that Sir Martin Evans has accused you of a dereliction of duty?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I think the Member has to be careful not to mix up the different aspects of testing. He originally asked me about laboratories that were dealing with tests that had been carried out, and I repeat to him what I said: we don't have any current deficit in our ability to process the tests that are being carried out and we have plans to increase that capacity when we need it.
The rapid review of testing that Paul Davies referred to showed us how we can increase the number of tests available and increase the take-up of tests, and we're putting that review into practice. We will have more tests in Wales this week than last. We're increasing the take-up of them, particularly from social care but from other key workers as well. We have police officers and firefighters being tested now in Wales.
On Sir Martin Evans's comments, I was surprised to see them and I see that Cardiff University immediately put out a statement saying that his views did not represent the views of the university and that the university continued to work very closely with the Welsh Government on a range of pandemic-related matters.

Mark Reckless AC: First Minister, may I thank you not just for your statement but for all the work that you and your team are doing? I trust that you are bearing up well in these quite extraordinary circumstances.
In trying to scrutinise what Welsh Government is doing, it is tempting to concentrate on the areas where the approach in Wales is somewhat different, perhaps, than that taken by the UK Government. But, overall, those differences are relatively small, and I think there's a far greater commonality in approach than there is any difference. There is, however, I think, between the UK and most countries in Europe, some difference in terms of how we approach that—that our lockdown, or at least compulsory lockdown, measures, came in rather later, and we are seeing, even in just looking at hospital deaths, deaths in the UK, and, indeed, Wales, on a per capita basis, as at or towards the top of the European league table, if that's not an inappropriate phrase to use, and the difficulties of the data and the comparisons are very real.
I just wonder—. We can see that very negative side of it, all the families who are affected by those losses, and we commiserate in every possible way with them. We see that happening. What is the Welsh Government's planning assumption about what that will mean as we gradually, at some point in the future, are able to loosen measures? Does the Welsh Government consider that there will be a greater degree of immunity from people who have had the virus, be that asymptomatic or be that with relatively limited symptoms? There are studies suggesting in Stockholm perhaps around 30 per cent of people having had infection. Do we have an assumption or any way of measuring or projecting what that will be for Wales and what the impact of that will be when we consider easing measures?
Could I also ask about the testing regime? We had, some time ago, community testing, and that was then shut down as we moved from one stage of the pandemic to another. We've had these targets of 5,000, or perhaps 9,000, at the end of the month for Wales, and 100,000 for the UK, or for England. I don't know if those are the right targets, but it doesn't look as if we're particularly in distance of hitting them, and I just wonder what can be done to make testing more widespread.
One health board that I'm in good contact with—and it may be a more general issue—at least at the end of last week, didn't want to give wider testing to partners and other organisations because of concerns that they didn't have cover around data protection and GDPR, and they were waiting for Public Health Wales to publish, or at least share with them, a protocol on what should be done. Surely the degree of emphasis that would go to those issues should be less when we have a pandemic of this scale and we have this urgency of having greater testing. And if an organisation is sharing data from someone who's had a test and is sharing a swab to be tested with another organisation, a health board that's got the testing capacity, why can't that be tested and the test result and the other data returned whence it came, given that the person has given permission for that test? I know, ideally, one would like to give a lot of feedback and ensure what pathways people would go down, depending on what that test result is, but surely it is better that—if people believe they have coronavirus, it is better that they are tested and find out for sure whether they do or do not have that. I just wonder: can Welsh Government do anything or show a lead in terms of any data protection issues, if there still is a concern that's slowing or making it hard to test people who are not directly employed by the health boards? Can you as First Minister give a lead in that area?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, can I thank Mark Reckless for his opening remarks? The relationship between Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom in the coronavirus crisis is one in which I believe that working alongside the other Governments is a strength, that, when we can do things together and send a single message out to the public, that makes that message simpler and therefore more readily heard and understood. But, where there are things that we need to do differently to meet Welsh circumstances, then of course we will do that as well. But I always go into the room with other UK Governments looking for common ground and trying to craft a way forward in which we can all sign up to it together.
I agree with what Mr Reckless said about following European evidence, about looking at experience elsewhere. Other European countries are coming out of coronavirus ahead of us, are lifting restrictions before we are able to do so. We need to capture the learning that they will have about what the impact of that will be.
On immunity, my understanding of this is that we don't have good enough evidence from anywhere in the world that having coronavirus gives you a level of immunity that means that you can confidently go and provide services to people who have the virus, knowing that you can't be reinfected, or that you can't be a source of difficulties to others. There is a huge amount of work going on in many countries to try and establish that evidence, but, today, you couldn't confidently say to somebody who'd been tested, who the test demonstrates that they've had the virus, that that now means that they can safely go and put themselves in places that otherwise would be a source of risk to them.
The pattern for the future that we are anticipating in Wales depends a great deal on the rate of conformity with the current lockdown arrangements. If it was only 40 per cent, the virus could still be rising. If it's 60 per cent, then we can be pretty confident that the virus rate of spread in the community will be going down. If it's 75 per cent, we may well see a very real suppression of the virus that will last into the weeks ahead. So, the modelling depends upon the extent to which we can go on persuading people to abide by the restrictions. As you know, in Wales, we've had a fantastic response to that, but we need to make sure that that continues.
On testing and on the data-sharing issue particularly, the Information Commissioner put out guidance very early on that said that his office would look sympathetically on measures that were being taken to make sure the data was properly shared, while making it clear that the law has not changed. Therefore, when organisations are sharing data—and remember the data belongs to the patient, not to the organisations; so, it's your data and my data, and the person being tested's data that is being shared—there is still an obligation on organisations to make sure that that is being done in a way that is careful and proportionate. While I don't want general data protection regulation and data-sharing issues to get in the way of doing the right thing, I do understand why people who will be held responsible for the way in which they have made those decisions on our data need to make sure that they are doing it in a way that would continue to stand up to scrutiny from the Information Commissioner and any court of law.

We are almost out of time for the statement, and I haven't been able to call a backbencher yet, so if I can extend the time slightly in order to be able to call backbenchers—. We will review this allocation of time and allocation within the time for speakers and party leaders for next week's session in order to allow more backbenchers to be called. If I can ask for succinct questions and succinct answers from now on, I'll try and call as many as possible within the next 10 minutes. Mark Isherwood.

Mark Isherwood AC: Diolch, Llywydd. In a letter to you on Monday, Autistic UK Cymru said the Wales regulations—the health protection coronavirus restriction regulations—had been written in a way that further confuses autistic people. In England, people with specific medical needs, including those with learning disabilities or autism who require specific exercise, may leave their homes to exercise in open space two or three times a day. I've been contacted by concerned families across Wales who need the same provision asking why they can't have it in Wales. In your briefing on Monday, you made positive noises about changes to the regulations, including those for people with learning disabilities or autism. Will you now, therefore, ensure that individuals with learning disabilities or autism in Wales who require specific exercise can access that in a way equivalent to that of their colleagues across the border?
Local councils across Wales are facing huge financial pressures as a result of the pandemic, with losses estimated to be in excess of £33 million a month. How will you address the concerns expressed by local authorities in Wales with low levels of reserves that they will go under without financial help to cover the additional costs of providing services during this pandemic? Will you commit to giving the additional £95 million your Government will receive from the UK Government, in consequence of the £1.6 billion announced for local councils in England to fight COVID-19, directly to local authorities in Wales to support the key services they provide, and to the independent care sector for the support they provide in the collective fight against this pandemic?
Finally, in the virtual Plenary two weeks ago, I asked you to clarify provision for critical workers to access childcare and educational settings for their children, after having been contacted by NHS staff in Flintshire who've been told that both parents had to be critical workers in order to qualify. I understand that, in most councils, the rule has been the same, in that where possible in such circumstances if parents could stay at home to look after their child, but where that's not possible, care is being made available. My colleague Suzy Davies learned from the education Minister last Friday, we understand, that all that now needs to be shown is that one parent is a key worker. Could you therefore please clarify and give clear instructions or directions to local authorities on whether that's accurate and whether it is now sufficient for one parent to be a key worker where the other parent is not able to be at home for any part of the day or the week?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, thank you. We're obliged to review the regulations every 21 days. As a result of our first review, we intend to change the guidance on exercise for families where there is a medical need to have exercise more than once a day, and that will encompass children with autism. We will amend the regulations at the end of this week in the way that Mr Isherwood referred to.
As far as local councils are concerned, we have already given them £110 million more in Wales, well exceeding the £95 million consequential, but of course we are alert to the continuing pressures that local authorities face on their budgets and are in discussions with the WLGA about that additional £95 million, and there will be further assistance for local authorities in Wales.
I believe the guidance has already clarified the position of critical care workers and childcare, but I will make sure that if there is any ambiguity left in the minds of some local authorities that we clarify that with them.

John Griffiths AC: First Minister, you made mention of the restrictions on movement and leaving home, and I think that everybody understands the importance of discipline and compliance, as you mentioned, and that you will be guided by the medical and scientific advice in terms of any easing of those restrictions. I wonder if there's any more that you can say at this stage in terms of what early easing of restrictions might look like in Wales. Because I think a lot of people are obviously very interested in that, and the restrictions themselves have an impact on physical and mental health and well-being. So, we're all really pleased that people are observing these restrictions, and that's so important to protect public health and front-line staff. But I think people are very interested in what might happen a little way down the track in terms of early easing, when scientific and medical advice supports that.

Mark Drakeford AC: Thanks to John for that, Llywydd. Look, I'm not going today to give actual examples of what early moves in easing the restrictions might be. What I want people in Wales to know is that we are developing a set of tests that we will apply to any particular measure, the first and foremost test being: what would the impact of carrying out that course of action be on public health? But we will ask questions such as: how could that measure be policed? If you're going to change the rules, can the rules be enforced? And how easily could that be reversed if it turned out to be having an adverse impact? If that was something that caused the virus to spread again, would we be able to reverse it quickly as well?
Whatever measures we introduce, I think there will be a need for a clear set of protocols around that activity, because while I know, as John said, lots of people are looking forward to the day when some of the restrictions can be eased, I think there will be a lot of people fearful about stepping back into ordinary life. We have had weeks in which we have all been abiding by the message, 'Stay home, help protect the NHS, save lives', and as people move beyond that, I think people are going to need the confidence of knowing that there is a set of rules around any activity that means that their health and welfare is being safeguarded. So as we identify the particular measures against the tests, so we will want to work with those sectors to make sure that those protocols and rules are in place to give people the confidence to take up those activities again, because without them, I think people may be nervous about taking those first steps without knowing that we are really thinking that through and making sure that their health and well-being is being properly safeguarded.

Dawn Bowden AC: Thank you for your statement, First Minister, and can I add my thanks to those of others to you and your Ministers in terms of everything that you're doing at the moment? It's really, really difficult times for all of us.
Two issues from me: firstly, I know that we all recognise the remarkable voluntary efforts that we're seeing across our communities to help vulnerable neighbours and friends, so could you please update us on Welsh Government's support for the third sector to help underpin the contribution of volunteers? And secondly, following on from what John Griffiths was saying, really, you've already said that the next phase of our response must be led by the scientific advice, so can I ask whether your current evaluation of that advice and the possibility that we might have to manage the impact of the virus on our communities for possibly another 12 to 18 months, does that mean that investment in testing stations, PPE and other equipment, in rapid response teams for future outbreaks and in maintaining community and volunteering networks, in reality, is going to continue for the foreseeable future and until we have an effective vaccination programme?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I thank Dawn Bowden for those questions, Llywydd. On the voluntary effort, we have 15,000 new volunteers in the system as a result of the coronavirus appeal. That's more than double the number of volunteers that were previously registered in that system and that's a fantastic response. Here in Wales, the help that we are able to offer that group of people who are not in the shielded category but nevertheless have real vulnerability because they don't have family, friends or neighbours or other networks they can use, the mobilisation of that voluntary effort through community voluntary councils working with local authorities, I think, has been an astonishing strength of the way that we've been able to make sure that those vulnerable people in Wales have not been neglected, not just set to one side. And that is an effort that is going to have to continue for many weeks and months ahead.
I want to take up Dawn's second point, Llywydd, and just underline it: this is a long haul. This is not going to be over quickly. Until there is a vaccination that everybody can feel confident works, then we're going to be living with outbreaks of this virus for quite a long time to come, and as we lift the lockdown, so the surveillance measures in the community, our ability to be able to spot quickly and respond quickly to local flaring up of the virus again, will be an absolutely essential part of the plan that John Griffiths asked me about. Our chief medical officer has already developed a surveillance plan for Wales that we will need as the lockdown begins to be eased, and we are discussing with Public Health Wales this week how that plan can be translated into services on the ground. It will mean a different sort of testing regime, going back to community testing, rather than testing aimed solely at patients and at staff. It will be a huge effort that we will need to mobilise again and that's why, in my opening statement, I emphasised our determination to use the time we have during the next three weeks to put those sorts of plans firmly in place.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Today, 15 doctors who are leading health clusters across Wales have sent a robust letter to you, asking for far stricter restrictions in terms of second homes. Will your Government listen to the voices of these clinicians who are calling for a ban on the use of second homes in Wales in order to prevent a second wave of this virus? It’s terrible to think of such a thing after weeks of ongoing pressures on front-line staff, but we have to face that very real possibility. And in planning for that, we must provide assurances to our rural areas and our tourism areas that their needs will be at the forefront of that planning. Do you also agree with me that giving a fine of £60 to those who travel here unnecessarily—well, there’s only one word for it: that is risibly low. Will you support calls made by Plaid Cymru for legislation to increase that fine to £1,000, so that the police can properly punish those who break the rules and travel here unnecessarily?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, thank you to Siân Gwenllian for those questions. I haven’t yet seen that correspondence, but I do acknowledge the issues that she has raised. We have been working hard with the police forces across Wales and they have used the powers that they currently have. Every weekend they are working and they do fine people who are travelling to Wales unnecessarily; they do turn them back, and they have done that time and time again. Every week I ask the police whether the powers that they currently have are sufficient or whether they want us to do more. And the conclusion we’ve come to, I think, is that we want to bring the police, the Welsh Government and those working in this area to have a look at it. It’s one thing to say that we need to strengthen the measures, but it’s another thing to plan those so that they can deal with any problems that the police do identify. I do want to do that work and if there’s anything else we can do, where the police tell us that would be useful for them, then I am more than happy to go down that particular route.
I don’t agree with Siân Gwenllian about the fines that we can impose on those who don’t comply with the rules. We can’t simply do that for one form of non-compliance. For me, I haven’t seen any evidence that suggests that the levels here in Wales are not effective, and I don’t think that the case has been made to change what we have in place at the moment in that area.

Alun Davies AC: I'm very grateful to the First Minister for his statement and for his openness in answering these questions. I'd like to return to the subject of procurement, if that's possible. We saw yesterday the absolute chaos of a Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office being forced to write to a House of Commons select committee to retract evidence that he'd given yesterday afternoon to that same committee on the issue of EU procurement of ventilators. We saw last night reports on the BBC on Newsnightthat the privatisation of the health service in England has led to real issues and problems with the procurement of PPE. So, I'd like to ask the First Minister to what extent and whether he believes the chaos that we're seeing across the border in England is having a detrimental effect on the ability of the Welsh Government to procure both the equipment needed for hospitals and personal protection equipment needed for our front-line staff to deliver care for people, and whether the problems being faced by the UK Government in England are causing him difficulties in ensuring that we're able to provide for people and staff working on the front line in Wales.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I want to distinguish between two things. On the one hand, we are working very closely with colleagues right across the United Kingdom on procurement. Procuring as a UK is to our advantage because of the extra strength that gives you in the market, and we're working on mutual aid as well. We have recently provided mutual aid to Northern Ireland in a supply of goods that they were about to run out of, and we've had help from Scotland to strengthen our stocks in areas where we were running low.
So, I'm still completely committed to that way of doing things. The contrast I would make, however, is one that Alun Davies points to. Here in Wales, we still have a national health service—a system that is planned, a system that is easy enough for people to be able to operate where common rules happen in all places. The struggle that our colleagues in England face is an atomised service, where people have been encouraged to compete with one another rather than to collaborate with one another. And just at the point when collaboration and working together has to be the way through, they are having to battle the system they now have and the culture that they have created in a way that we simply don't have to here in Wales.

Leanne Wood AC: First Minister, some arrests have been made in connection with the deliberate setting of mountain fires in the Rhondda on Monday evening. People locally are very angry as these fires pose a risk to life. We've got mountain rangers, and I'm sure that people will support those with encouragement. Can you facilitate community involvement in mountain fire prevention? If you don't, I'm concerned that people may take matters into their own hands, such is the level of anger. Can you also tell us what can be done from a Government perspective in terms of messaging to educate people about about the seriousness of setting grass fires, particularly in the time that we're in now?
I wanted to ask about supermarkets as well, and the specialised slots. After a delay, supermarkets now have finally received the information from your Government about customers in the shielded group, so that they can be prioritised for home delivery. So, why are so many people still unable to get those priority slots? Some supermarkets tell me that they're meeting demand, but I'm still hearing complaints from people with legitimate reasons to have a home delivery that they're still unable to secure one. So, you've mentioned that we're in this for the long haul. How can you as a Government increase the capacity of the home delivery service?
And, finally, I wanted to just ask you about key workers. I wrote to your Government earlier today to call for the extension of free public transport that is offered to NHS workers to cover all key workers that are keeping society running in these dangerous conditions. Will you actively consider this offer to recognise the contribution of all key workers, and, further to this, would the Government be prepared to consider meeting the funeral costs of key workers if they've died as a result of contracting COVID-19 as part of their work? As you are aware, funerals can cost in excess of £5,000. These people have died carrying out a public duty. I think it's the least that they deserve.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, thanks to Leanne Wood for those questions. I entirely share her concerns about grass fires. We work very hard with the fire and rescue service. I'll make sure that we convey to them the point that she makes about community involvement, because that's a service we would have to rely on to carry that out. But, at a time when we need the fire and rescue service to be assisting our ambulance service, with everything that they are assisting us with in the coronavirus crisis, it is just completely wrong that people are having to deal with events that need never have happened. We've said in the past, as you know—it's often been said that it's young people, it's children who do these things—there is evidence that these are adults who are causing these grass fires, people who really ought to know better. And I thank Leanne for that point about community involvement, and we'll make sure that the fire and rescue service get that message.
On supermarkets, let me just be clear: there was no delay in getting supermarkets the information. There was a considerable delay in some supermarkets taking down off their websites the notice that said they were waiting for the information. They'd had the information for several days, many days in some cases, before they managed to take that notice down. They'd had that information from us. But again, to be clear, it is people in the shielded group—it's not that wider group of people who have other vulnerabilities who are being prioritised through the agreement that we have with the supermarkets, and that's exactly the same in every other part of the United Kingdom. So, all the supermarkets have the data of who are in the shielded group. Where people are being added to the shielded group, as they are because of general practitioners adding names, supermarkets are getting that additional information as well. Lesley Griffiths meets the supermarkets on a weekly basis. They, too, want to extend the number of slots they have available, but increasing their capacity is something that just can't be turned on overnight.
Where there are people who cannot get home delivery via the supermarkets, and where they have a real need, because they can't rely on anybody else to do it for them, that's where local authorities have been stepping in with the volunteers that we referred to earlier. And where any Assembly Member has an individual or a family not able to access the shielded slots for supermarkets but still in need of assistance, it's to the hubs that local authorities have created that we should go, and we've got real evidence of them being able to mobilise help where it is needed.
And as for key workers, I think Leanne said that she'd written today, so I will look out for her letter, and then respond when I've had a chance to consider what she has said in it.

I thank the First Minister.

3. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

The next item, therefore, is the statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services, and I call on the Minister to make his statement—Vaughan Gething.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you, Llywydd. I am going to give Members an update on a range of issues related to our coronavirus response from across the health and social care system.
We continue to maintain supply of personal protective equipment to our front-line health and social care workers. We're working on a Wales and UK basis to secure more robust supply arrangements going forward. As you've heard earlier from the First Minister, as of last week we had issued more than 16.2 million items of PPE to the NHS and local authorities, for distribution in social care, from our pandemic NHS stores. That pandemic stock is part of the 48.3 million items of PPE we have issued in Wales since 9 March. Supplies have been distributed to hospitals, general practice, the Welsh ambulance service, pharmacies, and all local authorities for onwards transmission into social care. And I do want to recognise the significant work that has been undertaken to establish new structures to deliver PPE from our national supplies to our vital services, including our independent sector providers in social care. I’d like to extend my genuine thanks to all involved—our health and local authority partners, social care providers, and local resilience forum co-ordinators.
In any operation of this scale, there will be times where things don’t work exactly as we would like. And I am acutely conscious of the stress and anxiety felt by our front-line staff; they want to know that they are sure that vital equipment will be available when they need it. And trade unions have been key in identifying those issues in real time at workplace level, for employers to respond quickly to shortages, which enables us to improve and refine the process and what that means to allow our staff to do their work in caring for the public.
The worldwide demand for PPE is creating an insecure and unpredictable market. As we know, some countries have taken the decision to stop the export of PPE supplies, and other supply routes have experienced significant delays. And the recent very public example of the delay of an order for the UK from Turkey is perhaps the most obvious and most public example of that.
We are, though, taking a multifaceted approach here in Wales to ensure that we do manage to provide our ongoing supply of PPE in Wales, and that includes working with other home nations across the UK to pool and share our procurement efforts to bring in vital new stocks, our usual Welsh arrangements, the procurement of additional PPE supplies using the National Procurement Service, and our work with Welsh businesses to produce more PPE here in Wales.

Vaughan Gething AC: In addition to working jointly with Northern Ireland, Scotland and England, we are actively mobilising industry in Wales to supplement back to those UK-wide supply routes through innovation and new manufacturing.
As you know, the First Minister recently called on Welsh businesses and manufacturers to help produce a Welsh supply of PPE to support our front-line health and social care staff. The Life Sciences Hub Wales is working with Welsh industry to develop, refine and deliver those ideas. And our approach intends to maximise all the opportunities that are available to us to recognise the scale of demand and the very challenging global market that we are operating and competing within.
We have, though, had a tremendous response from Welsh companies so far. In North Wales, we have Brodwaith in Anglesey, who are making 2,000 scrubs a months. We also have Worksafe Workwear in Ruthin, who are producing over 2,000 scrubs a month. One of those companies used to make pyjamas and the other used to make bags. They are good examples of how companies have adapted their processes in a matter of weeks to produce the equipment that we need—in this case, scrubs.
We also have high-profile examples of the Royal Mint and the Rototherm Group, who are making face visors and shields that are being worn by healthcare staff. And the gin distillery In The Welsh Wind is making WHO-approved hand sanitiser. I really have been struck by the level of innovation and support that has come from all parts of Wales.
The demand for PPE will continue to be well above normal for the foreseeable future. The actions that we're taking in Wales are all directed at ensuring the supply of PPE to our staff who need it to continue to work and to care for the public safely. It is of course important that the guidelines on PPE are followed properly and that PPE, of course, is used in accordance with that guidance by the staff who need it.
On testing—I know there have been comments in the First Minister's statement and in questions—on 15 April, I commissioned a rapid review that focused on the key elements of our plan for testing critical workers. That included our testing capacity, access to testing, and the testing referral and results process. Following the review, I can confirm that our current testing capacity is now 1,800 tests a day. I have made £50 million of Welsh Government funding available to bring in further equipment, chemical reagents and other activity to increase our testing capacity. We do now have mass drive-in testing centres in operation in Cardiff and Newport and new testing infrastructure is planned for north and south Wales to be in place shortly—within the next fortnight, as I understand it today—to boost the existing testing arrangements already in place. We're piloting a web-based booking platform this week, and I've removed the ceiling on referrals per local authority, and I've also published a new critical worker policy that extends the number of groups that can now be tested. We're now testing all symptomatic care home residents and all care home residents who are returning from hospital. All symptomatic care home workers themselves can now also be referred for testing.
I remain confident, following discussions with our chief scientific adviser on health, that our plan sets out the right approach to ensure we are delivering the right testing, when and where it is needed, both in the short and the longer terms. So, I'm confident at this point in time that we're testing the right people.
On a different subject, I do understand that it's important that we recognise and then try to understand why, across the UK, we're seeing a disproportionate number of people from black, asian and minority ethnic community backgrounds who have become critically ill as a result of COVID-19.
Yesterday, I confirmed that we in Wales would be contributing to the review that is being led by Public Health England to explore the role of pre-existing medical conditions. Welsh Government officials will mobilise efforts to establish whether there are any identifiable factors that could help to inform decisions on whether we need to give different public advice regarding comorbidities, isolation, shielding and personal protective equipment in relation to people from black, asian and minority ethnic community backgrounds. We will be working with representatives from our black, asian and minority ethnic communities here in Wales to help shape that work going forward.
Now, on children’s social care and safeguarding, I know there are major concerns not just for the Welsh Government, but for other key stakeholders. We understand that services are under pressure, and, at the same time, we know that the emergency is placing a great strain on all those involved in the lives of vulnerable children. To support local authority social services departments and partners in addressing those challenges, I'm pleased to confirm that the Welsh Government has now published operational guidance for children’s social services. That's been developed through close working with stakeholders and it sets out measures that should be put in place to minimise the impact of the pandemic; to help local authorities and their partners to continue to provide effective support to vulnerable, at-risk and care-experienced children, whilst maintaining their statutory duties.
Safeguarding remains everyone’s responsibility. I am concerned about the reduction in referrals and reports of concern for adults and children at risk of harm, abuse or neglect during the coronavirus outbreak. So, I want to remind everyone that social services departments are operating as normal and are able to respond to concerns that people have. So, if you feel that anyone, whether an adult or a child, may be at risk of abuse, harm or neglect, you can report that by dialling 101 or contacting the local authority social services department. Help is available through the Live Fear Free helpline for anyone who has concerns regarding anyone who may be experiencing domestic abuse or sexual violence.
And, finally, I ask the public not to be complacent. We have significantly increased NHS capacity and taken extraordinary steps to change the way that we live our lives. That has undoubtedly stopped a much wider and more aggressive spread of coronavirus here in Wales. The action that we are all taking is saving lives. There is, however, much more for us all to do for some time to come.

Angela Burns AC: Good afternoon, Minister. Thank you very much indeed for your statement. I would like to start by thanking not just all our health services and our community services, but everybody who's helping Wales to try to contain and deal with this dreadful situation that we're in. I'd also like to express my condolences to all the people who have lost those that they have loved so much over these last few awful weeks. I'd also like to put on record that I am grateful for our discussions on a regular basis, and I have found them very helpful in both understanding what's going on and in being able to scrutinise the Government.
Turning to your statement, I'm delighted that you feel that there is improvement being made on the subject of personal protective equipment and getting it to the right place at the right time and to the right people. Can you please confirm, though, how much extra the Welsh Government is procuring outside of the four-nation buying strategy? I am completely of the same opinion that we should be in the four-nation buying strategy. There's obviously going to be a PPE-wide shortage in the world for many, many months to come, and it makes sense to have that consolidated buying power, but of course, there are many other strands that we can take advantage of. So, are you in a position to actually tell us a little bit more about the procurement of additional PPE supplies using the National Procurement Service that you've identified within your statement?
I do also want to thank and welcome the great news that so many Welsh companies have turned their hand to helping us all in this very difficult time.
Now, I'd like to turn to the testing part of your statement, Minister. I am concerned, deeply concerned, about the decision to drop the targets for testing. As the First Minister said in his contribution a little bit earlier on—his statement—we're in this for the long haul, and I think that this is such an important area. And I think you can tell it's an important area, because it's been raised today by so many other people. I think it is vital that if we are to emerge from lockdown with the chances of a second or third spike being really suppressed, we need to have a very strong testing regime.
I note your rapid review—I have a copy of it here, I've read it. To be frank, it doesn't say an awful lot more than we all knew and have known for these past few weeks, it's just taken time to produce it. I am disappointed that we're only up to 1,800 tests a day, down from the promised 9,000 when we first started all this. I do welcome the web-based booking platform, but I want to reiterate my call for there to be an identifiable lead who can deliver on a Wales testing programme, not just today, but in the months to come. Someone—and a team—with logistics and delivery success and experience, because we not only need point-of-care testing and regional testing centres, but we need those rapid results. In west Wales and north Wales, I'm still being told that those tests are coming back too late. We're going to be looking at at-home kits, we're going to need contact tracers, we're going to need to build software, we're going to have to look at the modelling that we’re going to need to do in order to get us out of lockdown, and that needs a dedicated team.
A couple of days ago, you said that testing was your No. 1 priority, the next day you said that PPE was your No. 1 priority. I absolutely recognise that you're being torn in all sorts of directions with competing priorities. I urge you, Minister, to considering giving this to a team that can really focus on it and deliver it, because it's going to be such a vital strategy for us to move forward.
I just want to deal with two other areas that I found regrettable were not in your statement. The first is around the fact that some three weeks ago, health trusts in England were given a reassurance that they could have their current debts written off to ensure that they could fully focus on fighting COVID-19. But here, there's no similar pledge, and I noticed the responses in yesterday's press conference when you were very keen to sort of say, 'Well, we don't really know what kind of money we're getting. We're not quite sure.' I can be clear—we’ve got £2 billion coming this year as a COVID fund; on top of that, we've got another £1.4 billion of consequentials. I noted in your written answer to my question, you said that you don't charge interest on the debt. Yes, absolutely, and you cite Cardiff and Vale as an example of a health board that's come out of debt, but let's be very clear, that board was under targeted intervention from Welsh Government for two and a half years, and it achieved that in pre-COVID times. We're in a different place now. We have health boards that, between them, owe £100 million of Welsh Government debt, and they still are also working on an assumption that all the work that they're doing now, Welsh Government will pick up the cost on. Will you please lay out, very clearly, the financial support that you intend to offer to these health boards?
My final set of questions, actually, is around the data that we're currently collecting. Data, of course, is always one of those things where you can interpret it in a great many ways, and different countries are measuring data in very different ways. But I am concerned that recent data sets that have come out show such enormous disparities, health Minister, between health boards in terms of numbers of people who have died in hospital, numbers of people who have died in care homes, in hospices, or even in their own homes. And I think that, without us really understanding that data, we cannot start to build up a significant picture of how the COVID-19 process is working; the kinds of people—when, where why, how—vital questions to understand anything to really get to grips with what's happened and what we need to do in future. So, will you please review how we're collectinig our data and how we're using it? So, one quick example: we're saying that, in Aneurin Bevan, only about 10 to 12 people died of COVID in care homes compared to the neighbouring health board where the number is almost three times higher. Now, it could be that they got it in a care home, they were taken to hospital, and that is, sadly, where they died. But that is very important data to understand, because then we know that the outbreak was actually in the care home and we can take those kinds of measures. So, will you please review that?
I obviously have a number of questions, but I can see that the Llywydd will want to hear other people, rightly, and so I'm going to stop there. Once again, I would like to say thank you very much for the information you do share on a regular basis.

Vaughan Gething AC: On the final point that Angela Burns raised around data collection and uses, I'll happily review the data so we can be more certain about its accuracyand how it's then used to address areas of improvement and learning right across the system. I think it's always a fair point to think about how we review what we're doing and why and how information is used to enable us to improve.
On finance, I want to restate what I said yesterday: no local health board will be penalised for the action they have taken in responding to the once-in-a-century threat that coronavirus presents. I've spoken regularly with chairs and chief execs across the NHS family and it's not been raised with me at all that there are anxieties about how the finance will be reconciled at some point during the year, but it is just a point of accuracy that we aren't certain on the consequentials. From the headline statements that are made, we then have to translate what really arrives in Wales.
And the other point that none of us can avoid is the fact that we don't know the exact progress of coronavirus and the stress and the pressure that it will produce, not just in the significant additional resources we've put into creating a network of field hospitals, but, of course, the significant and ongoing pressure not just to provide PPE but, of course, the very real cost pressure that provides in itself and balancing that up against other activity that isn't taking place where costs aren't going but those staff are then largely redeployed. So, the financial movement around the system isn't certain, but to restate: no health board, no trust in Wales will be penalised for the activity that they are taking to keep all of us safe.
On testing, it is up to 1,800 tests today. Each Tuesday morning, I'll be publishing an update on the increase in testing and the forecast, and later today, I'll confirm a range of other figures. But in terms of the time frame for testing, my understanding is that I should be able to confirm when I've published matters today—and it's a matter of regret to me that I wasn't able to do this before today's session—that well over 90 per cent of people have their test results within two days of the test taking place. We've undertaken over 27,000 tests here in Wales, and on a per-head basis that means we're undertaking more testing than Scotland or England are. So, actually, our rate of activity compares with other UK nations. Our challenge is not just what we need in the here and now to make sure that critical workers including, of course, front-line health and social care staff, other emergency services and other partners receive that testing, but, obviously, the point that I've made repeatedly about the scale of the testing operation we need ahead of lockdown being withdrawn to make sure that we have a much more significant scale of testing and the spread and access to that testing as well.
On PPE, I just want to restate: we are far from complacent or sanguine about where we are. We know that we are running with a forecast of PPE coming in, but we're reliant on supplies coming in within each week to make sure that we're secure. The position on fluid resistant gowns we saw in England over the weekend is not something that we're taking any comfort in because we weren't in that position, because we do know that we need supplies coming in on a regular basis to make sure that we're not in that position where we have to reconsider what to do if the first source of PPE isn't available to us and to our staff. I can't give a running total of the amount of PPE that we've acquired outside of the four-nation purchasing routes, but we do continue to run through each of the opportunities that are presented to the National Procurement Service. We want to look at individual opportunities to work alongside other UK countries. And that is still taking place as well as our four-nation procurement. And what we've agreed to do is to be open with each other across the four Governments about how much we've got of each item. Because the mutual aid that the First Minister referred to that we provided to Northern Ireland, we may be looking for that mutual aid to be provided in the future, whether it's from England, Scotland or Northern Ireland. So, the openness we need is really important to make this work because the market that we're in is so competitive and so uncertain that an individual nation approach is not going to serve our staff or the public well. But I'll happily keep you updated in our regular conversations about where we are and the questions that I know you're asking in correspondence as well. I'm happy to do so.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: May I thank the Minister for his update and for our regular conversations? I’m pleased to ask these questions in a public forum such as this one. May I also take this opportunity to thank all of those key workers in healthcare and other key areas who are working so very hard on behalf of us all at the moment?
Generally speaking, I think that there are a number of areas that stand out: shortage of testing; concerns about PPE, which is still a very real problem on the ground, and for those on the front line, of course. We're not testing enough. There are no plans in place to test enough, and services, particularly care services, don't have the confidence that I would like to see them having in supplies generally, as we look at the weeks ahead.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Let me focus on a few of those key issues, then. There's still, I think, a lot of confusion on testing. I remain, as you know, Minister, unconvinced about the Welsh Government's stance on testing. We've been told again today that just over 20,000 people have been tested in Wales to date, but to put that in context: under original targets, we'd have tested 20,000 since Monday morning. Now, you wouldn't have picked the original targets—8,000 a day-plus by now—out of the air; they'd have been based on advice. We know the World Health Organization advice is that testing is really a key part of the battle against coronavirus, so can you explain what change there has been in the advice that you are given on the value of testing, because we've gone from that targeted 8,000 or 9,000 a day to around 1,000? You just said a minute ago that it was 1,800 today. Now, it's capacity of 1,800 today; it was fewer than 1,000 tests again yesterday, so we need to know what you are being told differently.
Yesterday, we were told that there's less spreading than we thought: yes, but that's because of lockdown, because of effective social distancing; it's working perhaps better than we had feared. It doesn't make the virus less contagious, so don't we need to have effective community testing in place before we can come out of lockdown? In fact, shouldn't we say that we can't leave lockdown? We cannot have substantial lifting of restrictions until we have community testing in place, and that's need a plan. We don't seem to have one, or I haven't been convinced that we have one, so can the Minister please square that anomaly for us? How can we build up our testing ready for relaxing lockdown rules without even having a trajectory to follow for increasing testing numbers?
And the First Minister said today we have no capacity problem. If we have no capacity problem, why are you, quite rightly, putting £50 million towards increasing capacity? The way I see it, we're just not reaching that capacity quickly enough. The First Minister said that it's a matter of not having enough people being put forward or coming forward for testing. Well, how about having a policy that encourages people to come forward, as a growing community-testing model, so that we are building up for the release of lockdown? We all want it to happen as soon as possible, but we can't do it until we know that the time is right.
Let me turn to PPE: real concern. Two things we need to know, of course: that we have enough PPE on the shelves now, and this week and next week for those that need them. I think from what I understand, we're sort of okay at the moment, which is good, although I'm still hearing of issues, especially in the care sector. In the longer term, though, the concerns I hear are that there's a lack of confidence in what is on its way in coming weeks, how much of it, and, crucially, whatthe delivery schedules are to make sure it gets out to where it's needed. Now, can we expect to have that kind of detailed plan? And with the military, as I understand, having assisted with the review of distribution, can the results of that review be shared as a means of giving people confidence?
I'm still also interested—and I've asked the Minister on a number of occasions—where we stand in terms of being able to source our own PPE internationally, as well as being part of your important pooled efforts across the UK. We know the background: suppliers in England refusing to sell PPE to care homes in Wales; flights full of PPE landing in Scotland, a major order on its way to Northern Ireland, but nothing quite like that happening here. So, if we are putting in those kinds of orders ourselves, and getting our own supplies—from China, for example—that's great; it's good news. Maybe I could ask you to share details of those orders today. But we're also hearing of UK Government telling other devolved administrations, 'You can no longer procure yourselves internationally.' Perhaps you can tell us if you've had such an instruction.
Third brief area for questioning: can I ask what work is being done on PPE for public use? I think there's growing evidence that wearing masks might well be useful to slow transmission when some social distancing regulations are released. So,on top of PPE for professional use, what plans are being put in place by Welsh Government for the procurement or production or distribution of public-use masks, because it may well be that we'll all need them soon?
And finally—also a question from me on data. We have the daily data on deaths related to COVID in hospital settings, with a lag because of death registration. We then wait to see COVID-linked deaths figures in the community too, which suggests, I think, that around a third more are dying directly of COVID in total than the official daily figures from hospitals show. But, on top of that, we have those tragic deaths occurring—non-COVID deaths, but deaths most likely that wouldn't have occurred were it not for the current restrictions: people not seeking timely treatment, not visiting the doctor and so on. The Office for National Statistics has also compared death rates now with the usual death rates, and found that the figure to be almost double what we would have usually expected across the UK for this time of year. That's 8,000 more in the first full week of April. So, are you able to tell us with any confidence what you think the current figures are for the number of deaths in total in Wales now, and are we able from that to assess through that data the steps that could be taken to save lives?

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for that long list of questions, comments and points. When it comes to the starting point about testing and whether we're testing enough—we've talked about this in our other meetings and in the response I've provided in public forum in the commentary and press questions. In terms of whether we're testing enough, we are having enough capacity, and it's about making use of that capacity. That's why the review I ordered needed to look not just at how fast we're growing the capacity, but the use we're making of it and the system we have to get people from referral to testing. I recognise that there were some challenges in our system, which is why there have been some immediate changes to improve that. We've already seen a much greater throughput in terms of the people from the care sector. We've heard from local government already; they're putting through much greater numbers of their staff and people in the independent sector. We've deliberately drawn Care Forum Wales into the work we're doing so that those in the independent sector have a much clearer line of sight into how they can get their members of staff referred, and to understand the policy changes that have been made that I referred to in my statement, and crucially, that the local resilience forums across Wales, which are having to co-ordinate the emergency response across Wales, and the range of services, also understand how they can refer their members of staff through as well, to get that commonality and consistency and efficiency in the process. So, our current capacity is what that is being used for, and I've had a direct conversation with the chief scientific adviser on health, and I've also spoken to the chief medical officer each day as well, and they are confident.
One of the points you raised with me was about what advice we're getting. Where we are will meet the sort of need we have in that sector of workers. But the point that I have regularly made, and I know you referred to it as well in terms of your comment around the value of testing—I've regularly made the point that we need to have a much bigger community infrastructure that is in place and ready to go. That doesn't mean that we're testing it for the first time on the first day and trying to phase our way out of lockdown, but that the capacity is increased steadily, progressively, and that we have it in place before we do come out of lockdown. That's a point I've made several times over the past week.
The reason, though, why we're not having to test 5,000 people a day and more is because of the social distancing that's been introduced, because of the measures we took to put the country into lockdown, because of public response, because we have intervened and flattened so successively the current rate of infection. But that doesn't mean that we can come out of lockdown today, for a range of reasons that I think Members here understand perfectly well. That's why I've made the point successively, and I'll keep on making it, that we need that bigger infrastructure ready and in place before testing comes out. And I don't think there's an anomaly there, because that is exactly what I've said pretty consistently when I've been asked about this for the last week and more.
On the point about the weekly update—in that weekly update that is being published on a Tuesday morning, moving forward I'll not provide an update but I'll give an indication of where we expect to be across the next week. That comes from the advice that we get from within our system and Public Health Wales and other actors on how we're increasing our capacity here, what the UK contracts are providing for us, to give that idea of where we're going to be next. Because I didn't pluck a figure out of thin air—it was based on the advice we had. And in the testing review I indicated the reasons why we weren't able to get that previous figure on tests: the change in behaviour across the rest of the world; the previous arrangements we had in place; the fact that other countries prevented equipment leaving their countries, including some chemical reagents and physical testing kits; and the fact that some of that equipment has been delayed. Those are all very real factors that are outside of our control. So, rather than setting a new target when I can't control a range of those factors, and neither can our own actors here in the health family in Wales, I've committed to providing a regular update on what we are doing and what we expect to do to get to the point where we have that much bigger infrastructure in place.
On PPE, a regular schedule is provided to local authorities and within our healthcare system, in terms of when they can expect deliveries. To be fair, the leadership at the Welsh Local Government Association have recognised that there has been improvement in the understanding of what's coming and the delivery of that. As I said, over 40 per cent of our pandemic national health service stock has been provided to local authorities for use in the care sector, including by those individual businesses as well who would normally source their own PPE but are now having that provided free of charge by us, through the national health service, whereas, actually, in some parts of England they're still paying for that stock despite its provision coming through the healthcare system.
On the review the military have undertaken, it has given us confidence in the logistics in our delivery system. It's given us some pointers for improvement, and we look several times a week at what is happening and our ability to have the right levels of PPE, and where we think that there are potential supply issues. We're also providing some technical briefings to people who really do need to know this in the system, on the trade union side and employers, so they've got confidence to provide to their members and their employees on what actually is happening.
On procurement, we continue to work not just individually to follow up leads that are provided to us, but we're also, as I've indicated, working with Northern Ireland and Scotland, as well as England, and we've also agreed to come together on a four-nation basis. It's not so much a matter of instruction, but it's how we've agreed to work in pursuing those opportunities.
In terms of masks for the wider public—again, I've answered several questions on this in a number of fora over the last week—the evidence base is being reviewed. At present, the advice we have is that the public don't need to wear masks. We know a number of people already are. The wearing of masks is about protecting other people so that you don't spread coronavirus to someone else, and that's most effective for people who may be asymptomatic, but it's worth reminding ourselves that people who are symptomatic and haven't had a test should be self-isolating. People who are COVID-positive should certainly be self-isolating.
We'll need to consider the impact of asking the public to wear masks and what that means, making sure it doesn't compromise the supply of surgical-grade masks, but that, equally, we understand what the evidence base is. If that evidence base changes, then I'll be very happy to shift the position and the advice that we give to the public. We don't know everything about coronavirus—we learn more each day and each week. It's part of the reason why some of the advice has changed throughout the progress of the pandemic. I expect that on a range of things we'll be doing things differently in months to come compared to where we are today.
On non-COVID-related mortality—your final point—last week, of course, the chief executive of NHS Wales raised this point in his press conference. I've referred to it several times this week, including in yesterday's press conference, and I have asked the health service to do some work already to understand those areas of non-COVID-related mortality, to understand how much that need is being suppressed for people who do have urgent care needs. As I've mentioned in my statements previously, the NHS is open for business for people with urgent care needs. I don't want people to be so fearful of coming to the national health service for treatment that they potentially end up risking their own health and well-being. Sometimes that has led to potentially avoidable mortality. It's a matter I did manage to discuss with chief executives and chairs earlier today. I want to provide more focus on that in the week ahead, because public behaviour is a big part of why we've had a success story in preventing the spread of coronavirus, but it's also part of the challenge that you highlighted, and we've talked about before, on those non-COVID-related areas of mortality and how we continue to restart other parts of our national health service in the future.

Caroline Jones AC: Thank you for your statement, Minister, and for your department's continuing efforts to help combat this disease—a disease that has killed nearly 200,000 people worldwide. Every one of those is someone's loved one, and my heart goes out to all those who have suffered loss at the hands of this invisible killer. Without the efforts of our NHS and social care heroes and volunteers, many, many more of us would be suffering from that loss.
Minister, in addition to our full-time social care staff, carers—both paid and unpaid—have a vital role to play during this crisis. Unfortunately, this vital role is not always recognised. One constituent who's been in touch with me has informed me that they're often forced to walk six miles home after caring for someone because public transport is reserved for key workers. Despite showing documents saying that she is a carer and a key worker, she has not been allowed very often on this transport.
Minister, do you accept that carers are key workers and will you work with the Minister for transport to ensure that our carers are rightly recognised as vital key workers, because without their efforts our health and care system would be overwhelmed?
Minister, the UK Government has also launched the CARE badge to enable the efforts of those working in social care to be recognised and rewarded. So, does the Welsh Government have similar plans?
I'm pleased to see that our care homes are getting supplies of PPE, although shortages still exist throughout the system. I accept that this is a world-wide issue. However, more needs to be done to ramp up domestic production and make it easier to ship in supplies. I have been contacted by freight companies concerned about the level of bureaucracy involved in shipping in PPE equipment. While I accept that checks have to be in place to ensure the efficacy of PPE, surely we can do more to streamline the processes during these times of crisis.
Minister, we also have to ensure that it is as simple as possible for companies and organisations to manufacture PPE. I have had contact with a wedding dress manufacturer locally who wishes to make gowns and masks for the NHS. So, Minister, what steps are you taking to make it easier for such companies to get involved, and will you consider what steps you can take to streamline the process, such as providing templates, et cetera, particularly for the face masks?
There is strong evidence to suggest that, when the lockdown is eventually lifted, the public on occasions, such as using public transport, will still be wearing face masks to help limit the spread of coronavirus. But we can't do that unless there are sufficient supplies of face masks to go around. So, Minister, do you have plans in place to increase these supplies?
And, finally, Minister, we have to plan, obviously, for the eventual relaxing of current lockdown measures, and I am grateful that the Welsh Government is recruiting people to help with contact tracing and have adopted the Symptom Tracker app. However, not everyone has a smartphone, so what plans do you have to improve symptom tracking for those without access to a smartphone?
Thank you, once again, Minister, for your continued efforts.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for that series of questions. We've actually worked alongside developers on the smartphone app and it's giving us a large amount of data in Wales to understand wider community activity and behaviour, but none of those systems are perfect and there are people who miss out—equally, not just on symptoms, on the data we're able to track about traffic movements and people movements as well to show the adherence to wider social distancing.
So, we've got a range of surveillance efforts, not just on symptoms, on people reporting them, but also of course the numbers of people who contact our healthcare system if their symptoms give them enough cause for concern and they feel unwell.
So, there is a range of different areas to understand the challenges we face across systems and how we then address symptoms, particularly given the settings—that's why there's been so much concern about the care home sector.
On face masks, I think it's again really important to reiterate that we don't want the public trying to acquire face masks that are medical grade to be used within our health or social care sector. It's about the evidence base that we have to understand whether or not masks would make a difference for the public, and, if so, what sort, andto make sure that they're manufactured in a very different way and to make it clear they're not in competition with those that front-line health and care workers need. Now, on the import of PP equipment, even if you take aside those matters that are reserved and we don't have control over, we certainly want to make sure that we test and understand the nature of the equipment that is being provided. I don't think anyone would want us to try to make that system any less properly rigorous. We want to know that people can have confidence in what they're being provided with. I know the economy Minister, through use of his local links, with the import of face masks that came in through a company in north Wales—we had to test that before having the assurance we could use it within our wider system. That's got to be the right thing to do. But every one of the leads we have is followed up and it's important to make that clear.
One of the frustrations that I have is that, for all of the well-meaning desire to help, some of those, of course, don't end up coming off, for reasons that I'm sure we could all understand. But my bigger frustration is the fact that, within all of the well-meaning and the positive things that do get taken forward, we still have to spend time working through what are fraudulent enquiries that are utterly mischievous, and that is a real sense of frustration. So many people in the world are behaving in an extraordinary manner to help their fellow citizen, but there are, sadly, some people who are looking to take advantage, and that is burning up lots of our precious time, energy and effort.
When it comes to recognition for carers, the economy Minister is going to be making a statement shortly, but we do need to think about the practical capacity of our transport network to take on additional need going into that, and it's a difficult balance. We regularly consider the role of carers, including unpaid carers and what they do, and many of us are, in fact, unpaid carers ourselves, when you think about friends and family who we care for. I'm certainly doing even more for my mother, as I'm sure many other people are with their parents and grandparents too, and that's really important to keep society going and to make sure that people who are living more restricted lives are able to do so well and to do so safely.
On the card issue that the UK Government have produced, that's actually—my understanding is it was a card for social care workers. What we've done in Wales is we've already provided a card—an electronic one, and there's a physical version going out—but that is so that our social care workers can be recognised as critical workers. That will help them with both assistance to practical restrictions in shops, when it is reserved for NHS and other critical workers, and to help them get practical assistance. We're also looking at rather more practical measures about how we recognise the significant efforts of our social care system, and a group of staff who we all recognise are relatively lowly paid, and we are reconsidering, quite rightly, the value they provide to our whole country.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you, Minister, for your statement today. I'd like, first of all, to ask you if you could give us an update on the number of doctors and nurses who are previously retired and have returned to the NHS and perhaps also any student nurses and how they are able to plug those gaps.
My second question is around the announcement about GP online video consultations. Can you confirm that they are available across all of Wales now, and are there any plans to extend those to secondary care?

Vaughan Gething AC: Yes, I'm happy to confirm that, when it comes to staff returning to the health service, there are over 10,000 staff who have now returned to the register that the NMC hold, and about 5 per cent of those are staff from Wales. That's a really good news story, because that's slightly more than our population share, and it does show a real willingness from recently retired staff to want to return. The NMC, as the regulator who holds the records, are writing out to people who have been retired from further back to see if they want to return. It's crucial we use those people in a way that is aligned with their skills, but also to recognise that some of them may need to be deployed away from front-line person-to-person care as well, so we make use of their skills without looking to compromise their own safety.
And it's the same picture with returning medics as well. There are a number of people who are retired who now have their own comorbidities where we need to make sure that we use them in a way that is entirely appropriate. I'll be able to give figures over the coming weeks on the number of undergraduates who have taken up the offer to come back to work and to be paid on 'Agenda for Change' conditions and to support the network that we have. And the need to scale that up is not what we thought it would be even a month ago, because of the fact that we haven't hadthe more significant upswing in coronavirus infections that we were planning and having to prepare for. So, that's a good news story—that we haven't needed to have all of those people working within our system. But it will matter as we move into not just restarting parts of our national health service, where we'll need to make use of that field hospital network; it will also matter about our ability to care for people who have urgent care needs. And, if we do see a further upswing in coronavirus, we'll need to be able to call on those people fairly rapidly, and I'm very grateful for the level of flexibility and commitment that all of those people have shown.
When it comes to the use of video-conferencing, I'm very pleased we've managed to roll this out across the country. There was a pilot in the Aneurin Bevan health board area. So, this was trialled in Gwent first and it was shown to be successful, and we've managed to roll that out much more rapidly than we would normally have done to a nationwide roll-out. It's part of my frustration in normal times that we aren't able to move more rapidly across the system. The real willingness of staff to make things happen and to remove barriers has been one of the really positive aspects of our response. That is available freely and comprehensively in primary care in general practice, and we are looking to roll that out further in secondary care as well, because some areas of that service already have a range of using digital technology and video-conferencing. I want to see that being a much more consistent part of the way we run our service. It's a point of necessity for the position that we're in, but, of course, it's a point of real advantage and opportunity for the future as we get used to different ways of working that make better use of everyone's time—both patients who need care, and our staff who provide it.

I've now called Members from each of the political groups. I will need more succinct questions and answers from now on to try and call as many of you as possible. We're already out of time for this statement. Janet Finch-Saunders.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: [Inaudible.]—Llywydd. And, again, I would like to thank the Minister, Vaughan, for your statement and to acknowledge the considerable effort that you are trying to make to respond quickly to the ever-evolving COVID-19 crisis. Now, yesterday, you announced that Wales only had a few days of PPE stock available, and you'll recall that I wrote to you on 3 April, submitting a written Assembly question asking you to take urgent steps to ensure that adult and children's hospices have access to adequate personal protective equipment. Now, whilst I've still yet to receive a response, I do welcome the announcement that you've made of a three-month package of additional support worth up to £6.3 million for hospices in Wales, but can you clarify what steps you've also taken along those lines to ensure that, now that the funding's in place, they can actually access the PPE they require?
I appreciate that more than £62.2 million extra items of PPE have been sent to front-line workers, but I cannot overlook findings by the Royal College of Nursing that 54per cent of those surveyed felt pressured to care for a COVID-19patient without adequate protection and that 49 per cent of nursing staff treating COVID-19 patients not on ventilators said that they have not received training on what standard PPE to wear and when they should wear it. And I've also had that concern raised with me in the social care sector. I'm aware that the Welsh Government has been liaising with military planners regarding the demand for PPE, and, obviously, we hope this will assist in effective distribution, but will you clarify what steps are being taken to ensure that there's a fair distribution of PPE across the front line of health and social care in Wales?
You will be aware, Minister, that some companies have written to you and, notwithstanding what you've said about people fraudulently writing to you, people are offering up supplies, and they've had to approach me because they say that they haven't even received a response from you—so, a simple 'no', maybe. But leaving people in limbo when they read news reports that there's this panic on for PPE and when they're bothering to write to you and the finance Minister—to not receive a response isn't good enough.
Now, sadly, as of yesterday, it was estimated that 100 health and social care workers have died from COVID-19 in the UK. So, again, I would reiterate—I think it was Leanne Wood who asked about the families of the deceased here in Wales—whether grants will be available for those who have lost their lives to the global effort, in terms of funerals and things.
More worryingly, and this is really the thrust of all my questions, I've received a lot of concerns from the social care sector hereabout the non-testing of people leaving hospital, and social care homes being asked to take these people in. I have situations now where some social care providers are not prepared to do that for the lack of a test, because clearly, if they've got a COVID-free environment in a residential care home setting or nursing setting, that's how they want to keep it. But I would ask: how are these deaths being recorded? When you write to local authorities they say, 'We're not recording them. Care Inspectorate Wales are recording them.' You write to Care Inspectorate Wales and they say, 'We're not recording them.' So I would really like your clarity because the deaths in the social care sector across the UK have quadrupled, and it's a huge worry to those working in the social care sector, and it's a worry to me as a representative of those people and my constituents. I am being approached on social care matters very, very strongly at the moment.
So, I think I've asked you enough questions there, but I would like your comprehensive answers to those, which will provide me with some assurance. Thank you. Diolch.

Just to reiterate the point I made, I asked for succinct questions and succinct answers, so I'll need to ask the Minister as well to be succinct in his answers, and I would appreciate Members listening to what I say when I ask for succinct questions. Minister.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you, Llywydd. I think there were eight separate points made. I indicated we had about a week's supply of fluid-resistant gowns, we expect to receive more this week, but I was trying to be open with people about the position, and indeed staff and the public.
On hospice care, I did announce extra money for the hospice sector. PPE guidance needs to be followed within that sector as well, and as I say, the equipment, the PPE that we're providing is for use across health and social care, and obviously used appropriately and where necessary within hospices.
On the RCN survey, the key point is that I expect people to take up those issues with employers. We have well-rehearsed social partnership meetings here in Wales, and pretty much an open-door approach. In fact, the RCN and other trade unions themselves take part in a weekly meeting with me so they can raise issues directly with me. It's important that those individual issues are taken up with employers in the first instance, and I expect those to be resolved.
I'm happy to confirm that distribution is fair across the country. No region is advantaged or disadvantaged about how we meet the need across the country, across both health and social care, and if people do have examples of concerns where companies say they haven't had a response, I'd be grateful if Members could provide the details so that I can follow them up.
On testing on residents due to return to the care home sector from hospital, that's a matter I've covered in both the testing review and, I'm sure you'll have heard, I covered it in my statement today.
When it comes to the recording of deaths in the community, including in the care home sector, we already have, through the Office for National Statistics, a regular report on those deaths and where they take place. There is a time lag between those, because they need to review all death certificates, of between seven and 14 days from the headline figures that are released each day by Public Health Wales. So, there is pretty clear and transparent reporting of all deaths across all sectors.

Leanne Wood AC: It's an inexcusable failure, Minister, that you've not carried out the 5,000 tests a day in Wales that you promised. The World Health Organization advises that the countries that are best coping with this pandemic are mass testing, they're tracing and quarantining. There must be, at the very least, weekly testing for all key workers, whether they work in the public or the private sector, and until we have that, we can't relax the lockdown. I'd ask if you would accept that point. You've said you're working towards mass testing, but you didn't say in response to questions from my colleague Rhun ap Iorwerth whether you accept that point—that, unless we have mass testing in place, we cannot relax the restrictions.
I've had concerning reports from care homes as well, where PPE is in supply, but the manager has locked it down because it's being rationed. The policy is for it to be used when residents or others are showing symptoms, but we all know that, by the time symptoms are showing, the virus may well have already been transmitted. So, will you urgently issue guidance to enhance the protective measures that care homes and other closed settings should follow? I know PPE is a precious resource, but it's not acceptable to expect these low-waged workers and those that they look after to be put at risk in the way that they are under the current policy, in my view.

Vaughan Gething AC: Okay. On the starting point, I just don't accept the premise that there's an inexcusable failure not to deliver a larger amount of testing. I've explained on several occasions the reasons why we weren't able to do it, the factors that were outside our control and what that means, and the direct advice we've had from our chief medical officer and our chief scientific adviser on health on how we make the best use of our testing resources, and the fact that we have enough testing capacity to address our front-line workers. I've also been crystal clear, not just today but on several occasions in the past, about the fact that large-scale testing is a prerequisite to move out of lockdown. I didn't need to be asked a question about that, I've proactively made that clear in a number of public statements.
I don't accept the premise that we need weekly testing for critical workers. We're not doing testing for the sake of it, we're only testing in a way that makes sense and is in accordance with the plan that we've had signed off. And, actually, it's not a dissimilar approach to the approach being taken by all four Governments across the UK on how we want to deploy our resources and the rationale that underpins it.
On PPE, I want to restate we're following the guidance. We had a review of the guidance right across the UK; all four nations are looking to follow that guidance and, in Wales, we haven't had to depart from it. And that is the point about making sure that we don't set a run on PPE use because we're responding to large-scale fears that people have, but that we provide confidence that the guidance is appropriate and is being followed, and that underscores why providing adequate amounts of PPE really is the No. 1 priority for me and for the Government at this point in time.

David Rees.

David Rees AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I can always be succinct, as you know.
Three areas. PPE: I will want to highlight PPE because, again, I do get concerns from care home providers and also domiciliary care providers regarding PPE. It's important, I think, that we ensure they have sufficient levels, and I do think the guidance can be strengthened by Public Health Wales, because if you're in a lockdown situation, a care home is likely to be seeing infections because of an asymptomatic member of staff coming in with the virus and passing it on, so they should actually be using PPE at all points in time, not just when a case occurs within that home. So perhaps you could strengthen PHW's advice and guidance on that.
Also in care homes—. I appreciate the website coming through, which will make things easier, but can you also look at ensuring that it's easier now for care home providers to have referrals by simply asking the council to do it directly, rather than having to go through PHW, which is causing more concern for some of the care home providers when members of staff are symptomic and they want them tested? A direct referral to the council might help that.
Finally, I very much appreciate what you said to Rhun ap Iorwerth in relation to your discussions with health boards as to the preparations to introduce other treatments relating to the provision for non-COVID issues, but I've also received information that cancer referrals from GPs in other parts of the UK, in some areas, have gone down by 75 per cent. Are we aware of what percentage of cancer referrals—urgent cancer referrals—from GPs have changed, and will you look into this matter? Because it could be that patients are not wanting to go to GPs at this point in time, or it could be because GPs are being advised that certain types of conditions need to be met and they are therefore hesitant to refer themselves. We need to ensure that those who receive that type of urgency are not delayed because of a fear of overburdening the health system at this point in time.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for the questions. I want to reiterate, on PPE, the point about the guidance needing to be followed. The last thing that we need to do is to encourage people to use PPE in larger quantities outside the guidance, because whilst that might provide some people who don't need it with more confidence, it will take away the supply from our front-line staff who really do. What we need is to make sure that each one of our front-line settings, including residential and domiciliary care, where they need to use PPE, have access to it. That's why we've taken the extraordinary step of using our public resources to provide PPE to independent businesses. We would not normally do that. If, in normal times, we were providing free of charge PPE to those going concerns, then people would have an entirely different set of questions, but it demonstrates this once-in-a-century threat that we are confronted with and the way that we are responding.
On the process of referrals, I'm happy to report that that has already improved. And, as I've said, we've heard directly from local government that a much larger number of referrals are being made of workers in the care sector. It's important to me those aren't just people employed by local authorities directly but people in the independent sector, as Dai Rees highlights. So we need to make sure that they have referrals that are speeded through, whether through the local authority or directly, to make sure that they're provided with the test and promptly. Again, the figures that we've published today should give some confidence that those results are then provided quickly.
On the particular point on cancer referrals, I recognise Dai Rees's longstanding interest in the work of the country on improving cancer outcomes, and it's one of the things that I am concerned about to make sure that urgent referrals where urgent care is needed don't get put to one side. That's already one of the things I've asked the service to look into as part of my concern to understand accurately the picture, and then not just to present that picture but actually to do something about it; to encourage people to come forward to address their very real healthcare need because, as we know, late referral, late recognition of cancer often leads to much more radical treatment and actually compromises the best prospects of people having a good outcome. So, they're definitely points that I want to take up, and you'll hear more from me over the coming weeks on the work that is being done to do just that, and I hope that provides an answer to Dai's question.

Neil McEvoy AC: I think the reality, Minister, is that far too many people simply do not have PPE at the front line. Again, what I'm hearing this afternoon is almost a denial of the reality of the situation. So, my question is a very simple one: what did you do to ensure that PPE was ordered in January and February, and how much PPE was ordered for the Welsh NHS during that period?

Vaughan Gething AC: As Mr McEvoy will understand, I don't have those particular figures at my fingertips, but I can absolutely confirm there's been no complacency and no denial on the scale of the challenge that we face, and if he'd just listened to the statement and the questions that I've answered in public on a range of occasions, we've distributed millions of additional items across health and social care. The 16.2 million items that have already been distributed from our pandemic stocks represent a huge additional influx of PPE across our system, and the work is tireless from our staff and people in the sector outside of the Government. And I want to pay tribute to them for the extraordinary efforts they are making to make sure that our front-line staff are properly equipped with PPE in what is an unprecedented global situation.

Jayne Bryant AC: Thank you, Minister, for all the work you and your officials are doing at this time. Following the Welsh Government investment, the Grange University Hospital was due to partially open at the end of April. Although the extra 350 beds will be ready and available as planned, over the last few days it has been very welcome to know that the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board are unlikely to need to use the extra capacity. The health board have said that they will keep the situation under constant review in case evidence changes, and we must not be complacent. The health board, their dedicated staff and the community have been at the sharp end since early March, and I know that the additional staff recruited will be deployed to support the existing services. Can the Minister assure me that the experiences learned by Aneurin Bevan health board will be shared with others, and also what more can be done to urge members of the public that if they are having a heart attack or stroke, for example, to call 999 as critical beds are available?

Vaughan Gething AC: Yes, thank you. I think there are a couple of points I'd make briefly in response, and that is that it's a good news story that Aneurin Bevan don't need to make use of the capacity that is available at the Grange now. That demonstrates the impact of our social distancing measure, but the important message about not having complacency about what we're doing now so that people don't suddenly throw away the gains that we have made. But it is there available for future use because we do expect that as we release social distancing measures, we may find more need coming into our system, and the point is well made about suppressed need. For those people who are avoiding coming into our system because they're concerned about coming into a hospital environment now, despite the fact that they have urgent care needs themselves, I want to reiterate that message again: if you have an urgent care need, the NHS is still open for business; we want you to come forward with your urgent care need. In some cases, it really can be the difference between saving someone's life or not.
And it's important to make the point about learning from what's being done, and I think absolutely across the system we're looking to learn from the expansion and the way that Aneurin Bevan have coped. I think it's the wrong time now to have a fully fledged public inquiry; that would be a massive unnecessary distraction. We need to learn as we move, learn as we do, and of course there'll be a time when there needs to be a much fuller backward look about what's been done and why. I'm sure that this Parliament will want to play its part in deciding how to do that.

Finally, Jenny Rathbone.

Jenny Rathbone AC: First, I'd just like to say that this was made by a couple of asylum seekers for me. It's obviously not suitable for healthcare workers, but it's beautifully made, and it's the sort of thing that we could get, for example, our design technology students making. So, perhaps you could pass that idea on to the education Minister.
A couple of questions: one is around PPE. There is clearly a global bidding war going on, and care homes are simply too small and far too busy to be engaging in that. So, it really is the role of government, both local and national, to ensure that we have the PPE we need. I think we shouldn't be shooting the messenger when Sir Martin Evans says that it is astonishing that an advanced, industrial country like ourselves isn't able to source PPE from within our own country. And I don't mean that we need to be producing all items of PPE in Wales; I mean across the UK we should be able to be self-sufficient in PPE. And as this coronavirus pandemic is going to go on for many months, we really do need to ratchet up our ability to produce it for ourselves, otherwise there's absolutely no hope for developing countries. I just wanted to ask a question on that, which is what thought, if any, has been given to making it safe to reuse certain items of PPE, because that is what is happening anyway by people on the front line who fail to get certain items when they need them. So, is there any evidence that some of it could be reused rather than disposed of immediately after being used?
My second question is around testing, because you say that you're confident that all the right people have been tested. Well, some of my constituents who are care workers have had huge difficulty getting tested simply because they don't have a car. You cannot turn up to Cardiff City Stadium or these other drive-in facilities if you don't have a car, and putting them in a taxi doesn't meet the social distancing guidelines for someone with suspected COVID-19. But by not providing this testing, we are delaying the return to work of the individual who may not have COVID, and we are submitting their families to having to be self-isolated. And, so, as well as home testing—and I'd like a bit more information on the timescale for home testing—I wonder if you could tell us what possibility there is for mobile testing by the testers going to the care homes, and the prison, and other places where we know that people need to be tested in order to be able to make the work of care homes more manageable.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for that final set of questions. On PPE, I just want to reiterate that we're taking an approach to pursue all leads and working constructively with other nations in the UK, because it's the responsible thing to do. And, in normal times, we'd be engaging in politics as normal. I think it's time to put all of that decisively to one side to get the right equipment for our staff. And this isn't about shooting the messenger when it comes to what Martin Evans said. It's not the view of Cardiff University that his judgment is one that applies to the work and the nature of our partnership with that university. It is a reality, though, of the fact that the global supply chains, which we have become used to having and delivering for us, have been interrupted significantly in a way that was not predictable even a short distance into the past. That's why so many Welsh manufacturers have responded to the call to change the way that they deliver goods to actually manufacture PPE and goods that we know that we need. And, of course, in terms of looking back and learning lessons, we need to look forward to understand what local supply chains we have to provide greater resilience for the supply of PPE across our health and social care system, and that is a point that is well understood within and outside the Government.
In terms of the reuse of PPE, it is possible that some PPE can be used, for example, in dentistry as a regular part of making use of some of the eye protectors that they wear. But that isn't a politically led choice or process; that's actually got to come on the basis of the evidence of what's safe, because if I decide and try to say now we should be reusing certain forms of PPE, that is not going to have the level of confidence that staff will understandably want, or indeed the public. Those are definite, professionally led conversations that are taking place about whether there is the potential for more reuse of PPE.
And, on testing, we don't just have drive-in testing facilities as you know. So, for example, we do think we're getting closer to home testing. You'll have heard some of the publicity this week about home-testing kits that are being developed here in Wales. And that's certainly part of our plan, to want to be able to exploit those—that point-of-care testing—so we don't have to wait a long period of time to get from referral to test to result. But also community testing services that already exist across Wales do include people going to other people's places of work or, indeed, their homes. That's already taking place in the here and now, and that's part of the infrastructure we already have, and we're looking at trying to expand that again into the future.

I thank the Minister.

4. Statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales: Response to Coronavirus (COVID-19)

The next item, therefore, is the statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales on the response to coronavirus. And before I call the Minister, can I confirm that the Deputy Presiding Officer will take the Chair for this statement? So, I call on the Minister to make his statement—Vaughan Gething. No, not Vaughan Gething, Ken Skates. [Interruption.]

I think Vaughan Gething needs to turn his microphone off. Vaughan Gething needs to turn his microphone off.

Can we ask Members, particularly the health and social services Minister—? Thank you. Sorry, Llywydd.

That's okay. I call on the Minister for economy to make his statement—Ken Skates. Can I just pause there? Can we have confirmation that the microphone for the Minister is now switched on, and that he can be heard? [Interruption.] We'll take a technical break for one minute, while we resume the Minister's microphone—Ken Skates's microphone.

Plenary was suspended at 15:52.
The Assembly reconvened at 15:53, with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Okay, we are resuming the session, and I now call on the Minister for economy to make his statement—Ken Skates.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Ken Skates AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to start by thanking Members across the Chamber for the very positive discussions that I've had with colleagues, right across all parties, in the last few weeks. Some very constructive ideas have come from those discussions, many of which we've used to shape the support that we are now providing to businesses across Wales, and to individuals as well. So, I want Members to know just how very grateful I am for that advice and counsel.
Now, there can be no doubt of the scale of the economic challenge that lies ahead of us. The Office for Budget Responsibility’s reference scenario depicts UK gross domestic product falling by 35 per cent in the second quarter of this year. So there is no avoiding a recession, but if we are to avert a major depression, it is absolutely imperative that Governments across the UK do everything in their power to shelter business through the storm, and protect workers from the very great threat of unemployment.
Now, as a Welsh Government, we've made a commitment to play our part in that work. It is why we have re-examined our budgets and made tough decisions, right across Government, to put in place a new £0.5 billion economic resilience fund. Our fund provides significant financial support that is additional to that provided by the UK Government. It provides vital support for businesses, particularly those small and medium-sized firms that are so critical to the Welsh economy, and that isn’t available to firms in England. We've done this because we want to support good businesses in 2019 to be good businesses in 2021. We want to support people who had a good job in 2019 to have a good job in 2021.

Ken Skates AC: So, last Friday, we opened the application process for the fund. The rate of applications in the days since has been unprecedented. More than 6,000 grant applications were received within just 24 hours of the launch. And as of 6 a.m. this morning, the economic resilience fund has received 5,842 microbusiness applications, totalling £56.7 million, and 2,267 SME applications that have totalled £127.3 million. So, overall, the total is 8,109 applications, totalling £184 million. 
I think that that demand speaks to the scale of the crisis that we now find ourselves in, and that's why I was pleased on Monday of this week to have responded with pace to release a further £100 million into this current phase of the economic resilience fund. It's worth saying that this work builds on the more than £440 million-worth of business rates grants that have now reached nearly 35,000 businesses across Wales.
Local authorities, Dirprwy Lywydd, have worked with urgency and with skill to process payments and are doing a fantastic job getting funding to businesses as quickly as possible. So, I'd like to thank every single local authority who has played a part in this work.
I'd also like to pay further tribute to the staff at both Business Wales and the Development Bank of Wales, and to my officials, who've worked tirelessly, often in difficult personal circumstances, to develop the most comprehensive package of support for businesses anywhere in the UK.
We've sought to strike the balance between supporting as many enterprises as possible and making a meaningful contribution to each one’s survival. But in doing so, we are not losing sight of our longer term ambitions: the need to decarbonise the Welsh economy, the need to increase the incidence of fair work and the need to raise the skills levels of individuals across Wales. And that is why we have asked each recipient of our support to sign up to the principles of the economic contract.
The fund and criteria will be reviewed before the next phase is released. And I'd like to welcome, in addition, the action of the UK Government in terms of the job retention scheme that is now opened, and I welcome the extension of the scheme as well until at least the end of June.
On Monday, the UK Government announced a package of support to innovative new companies that are not eligible for existing coronavirus rescue schemes. To qualify, a company must have raised £0.25 million or more privately in the last five years. It’s important, I think, that the UK Government monitors progress of the scheme to ensure that this threshold does not deter vibrant and viable businesses from accessing support.
In Wales, start-ups that were established prior to 1 March of this year will be able to apply for the economic resilience fund if they meet, of course, the eligibility criteria. This sits alongside the already well-established and high-quality package of pre-COVIDsupport for small businesses that is available through the Development Bank of Wales and, of course, Business Wales’s start-up loans and comprehensive advice.
So, while a lot has been done, I also should say that there is still a lot to be done. There is an urgent need to see more of the promised lending guaranteed by the UK Government, getting to the front line. The UK Government must continue to support and press the high-street banks to be far more responsive to the needs of our businesses at this incredibly difficult time. I believe that there is a lot that high-street banks could learn from our very own Development Bank of Wales in the way that it has adapted to the current period that we're in—making sure that it has adapted its own policies and processes to get funding and support to businesses without delay.
So, Dirprwy Lywydd, we are all incredibly proud of businesses all over Wales—businesses that are stepping up to support the fight against COVID and to assist our NHS. There has been an overwhelmingly positive response from the business community to our call to action on PPE. Through it, we are now seeing innovative ways of working as businesses switch to making devices and products that will make a huge difference to our health and social care staff.
Those currently furloughed or out of work, though, need support too. And that's why, on Monday, I launched our new e-learning provision aimed at improving skills and supporting mental well-being by helping individuals to prepare positively for the future, whatever that may bring. Through our new offer we have made available a range of high-quality and free online learning resources from trusted providers like the Open University. This provision is supported by online careers advice and guidance available for use by individuals across Wales via the Working Wales website.
I now look forward to taking colleagues’ questions.

Thank you very much, Minister. Russell George. Russell George?

Ken Skates AC: Russell has not been unmuted.

You need to unmute—

Russell George AC: Okay?

There you go.

Russell George AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

You're welcome.

Russell George AC: Thank you, Minister. Can I thank you for your statement, and can I also thank you for your weekly meetings with opposition spokespeople? I think they're invaluable, because they allow us to raise issues directly with you, as well as being updated. So, that's greatly appreciated, Minister. Can I genuinely welcome your statement? I think that the financial assistance being provided by both the UK Government and the Welsh Government is very good to date. And also I think it's quite right what the First Minister said earlier today in that it's important that schemes complement each other from both Governments.
The Chancellor announced his £250 million future fund for business start-ups and the tech sector, and I wonder how you are supporting businesses in Wales to attract funding from that particular scheme. I think it's also important to take into account the Enterprise Research Centre, which published some data I think in the last couple of days, showing that Wales could be the most significantly hardest hit, as a result of the coronavirus and restrictions brought into place, and they've provided some detail with that. But, clearly, I think you said yourself, Minister, we have a higher percentage of smaller businesses here in Wales, especially in rural Wales, so I think we need to be adapting accordingly.
The economic resilience fund was very welcome. From my perspective, I was telling businesses 10 days or two weeks ago that were contacting me: 'Please, just wait. The economic resilience fund is going to fill those gaps that are left'. I appreciate that any Government can't fill all the gaps, but I was expecting more gaps to be filled than what is currently the case, as announced. But I very much hope that you are going to bring forward further schemes that will support those existing gaps that exist, and I'm particularly thinking of—and I'll go though a few of the gaps now— VAT, for example. Businesses that are not registered for VAT—these businesses are small business; most small businesses in Wales, or a large number of them, are not going to be registered for VAT—are currently excluded from the criteria. So, it would be good to have confirmation that, in the next phase of the scheme, those businesses are going to be serviced. I know that Paul Davies raised this with the First Minister earlier on, but the First Minister didn't give any detailed answer at that point.
There's still the issue of those who are self-employed, sole traders who recently have become self-employed, and aren't able to produce accounts. And there's also the issue of those who haven't been able to put in tax returns yet or with an irregular turnover. I am particularly thinking of businesses that may invoice, so they had work in January, February, and invoices went out and they're now being paid in March and April, but they've currently got no work coming in. So, they aren't able to meet the criteria that's been set in the current EDF funding with regard to 40 per cent reduction loss in turnover or profit.
Then, there are some issues around business rates that I hope you can address. I appreciate that this crosses over with your colleague, the finance Minister, but there are many businesses that are excluded, and it does seem to me that there needs to be some degree of tapering or accommodation for this. There are businesses, for example, with a rateable value of £12,500, that are excluded, whilst businesses with a rateable value of just a little bit less are receiving £10,000 in grant money, and there are businesses in the hospitality sector, for example, with a rateable value—. I know one with a £53,000 rating that's not able to receive any funding at all, whilst a business with just a rateable value of £49,000-odd would receive £25,000 grant funding. So, what degree of tapering might come forward in future Welsh Government initiatives of business rate relief?
On business rate relief as well, I'm very pleased that the Welsh Government got the money out to local authorities quickly, but there are some differences between local authorities in how they are delivering the funding direct to businesses, unfortunately. Some local authorities are doing well, such as Powys County Council in my own area, which got the money out very, very quickly. So, I very much commend that. But some local authorities are just not getting that money out, and other systems are far more bureaucratic.
The tourism sector—I know it's been mentioned earlier today. There's been a significant downturn in this particular sector, and I wonder what further Government support you can confirm that will come forward to support this particular sector. Obviously, very crucial. And also, businesses that have a seasonal turnover as well, especially some that need do demonstrate a loss in profit. Clearly, some won't be able to do that because of the seasonal nature.
Also, coming to the end, the recovery phase. If you could just confirm that the economic resilience fund is just for the here and now, or is it for the longer term? I assume that it's just for the here and now, and that the Government's going to come forward with a further larger package in terms of how we move beyond the current phase, and we get support out to help businesses change their business models, innovate through technology, et cetera.
And finally, the Development Bank for Wales—I'm very pleased that they got loans out quickly to people. It’s a good news story, perhaps, to a degree, that many businesses have been supported. But, of course, the funds have dried up, so what other additional funds can the Welsh Government lever in itself from its own resources or the UK Government's or European funding as well?

Thank you. Minister.

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I thank Russell George, both for his kind remarks at the beginning and for the questions that he's asked? I think the way that you, Russell, Helen Mary, David and I have been able to work over the last month shows that you can operate in a collegiate way across political parties without losing strong scrutiny of Government as well. So, I am very grateful for the way that we've been able to work together in assessing what is best for the country.
In terms of the questions that have been asked, I'll try to run through them in the order that they were asked. First of all, the future fund—the fund that was announced for start-ups. I've already said that there is a difficulty within the criteria for Welsh start-ups regarding the requirement to have raised £0.25 million privately in the last five years, and on top of that, of course, then money put in by the UK Government has to be matched by private investors, but if the money isn't repaid, then the UK Government will take an ownership stake in the company.
I know that the Government has reviewed the coronavirus business interruption loan scheme. I'm hopeful that it is monitoring very closely how effective this particular scheme is as well and, should it transpire that further revisions are required here, that it will make the necessary changes in order to assist businesses across the country, because at the moment, there is a risk that it would benefit primarily those in London.
It has to be said, though, that there are other alternatives that are impressing— that UK Government Ministers are considering, including using the existing research and development tax relief regime to bring forward the payment of significant sums of money. The money is already in the system, but it could be advanced sooner to support businesses.
It's worth saying that start-ups that were established prior to 1 March 2020 can apply for the economic resilience fund if they meet the criteria. So, that support is available to them, and that's additional, of course, over what businesses and start-ups would have in England. The development bank itself operates its two specific funds to assist with start-ups and specific sector, tech start-ups.
Now, in terms of the ERF, you are right to assume that this particular fund is for the rescue stage. As we now look at resetting the economy and recovering from COVID-19, we'll look at the most appropriate means of supporting businesses moving forward. That second phase of that tranche of £100 million will enable us to look at some of the remaining gaps and you've highlighted a number of them.

Ken Skates AC: One of the biggest gaps that has occupied our thinking is the non-VAT registered microbusiness. Now, the reason that we built in that particular piece of criteria into phase 1 of ERF was to avoid significant fraud, because it enabled us to check the address of a business, the existence of a business. Moving forward, the Scottish Government have introduced a model that we were considering, which is essentially a bursary. That might be the option that we settle on. But one thing is for sure: we wish to address that particular segment of the economy.
In terms of sole traders that have recently taken up employment and some of the other gaps that Russell George highlighted, in many respects, these are welfare matters that may require the attention of officials who are concerned with the discretionary assistance fund, and across departments, we're looking at how we can utilise an enhanced discretionary assistance fund for the purpose of filling in some of these gaps.
We had to set cut-offs at some point in terms of the level of grants that businesses would receive. In terms of tapering rates relief in the future, it's something that I'll certainly be discussing with my colleagues, principally the finance Minister. And I'd share Russell George's congratulations of Powys council, which has, I think, consistently, week on week, been at the front of getting grants out to businesses. In the first few days, I think within the first week, they managed to administer 2,000 grants, which was very impressive.
The UK Government has indicated that it will be publishing all of the English councils' performance, and given that that is likely to happen very soon across the border, I think it makes sense that we consider it here, but I've also asked UK Government to publish, if you like, a league table for the high-street back-ups with regard to the coronavirus business interruption loan scheme, so that we can check which of the banks really are stepping up and which are failing their customers.
The next stage of the Development Bank of Wales COVID-19 loan scheme could attract money from UK Government. We've certainly asked for it and the development bank itself has applied to become a CBILS lender. That would provide huge opportunity in terms of being able to provide more money sooner for Welsh businesses. It's quite a staggering fact that the Development Bank of Wales, in contrast to what's happening with CBILS, has assured us that it will be able to get money out of the door for all of the successful applicants by the end of this month. That's a pretty impressive achievement if they are able to deliver on that.
There will be, as we consider the reset and recovery, there will be huge opportunities. Of course, certain sectors will contract, certain sectors will change considerably, but there will also be many opportunities, and we wish to make sure that we've got the support mechanisms. There's a huge amount of thought at the moment going into this concerning how we can embrace and exploit emerging opportunities that will be driven largely by behavioural change.
Russell George has identified one particular sector that will require a lengthier period of support—that being the visitor economy. I've already taken up a UK Government Minister's concern of the tourism sector and other sectors and sub-sectors that will likely require further support in the months ahead, particularly with regard to the job retention scheme.
I'm also aware of many conversations that have taken place that are involving the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism on a UK basis to examine what sector-wide support may be offered across Great Britain and Northern Ireland. There is a need, I think, once we begin to emerge from coronavirus, to consider what protocols as well need to be introduced in order to safely resume the visitor economy across Wales. Those protocols, if they were to be certified, could give assurance to customers and to visitors that businesses are complying with post-COVID-19 requirements in order to operate successfully, and I think that's the safest way to resume activities in this important sector.

Helen Mary Jones AC: Can I begin by echoing what Russell George has said and thank the Minister and, indeed, his staff, who have been very responsive to specific concerns that I and my colleagues have raised and also very open to new ideas and new suggestions? I would submit that this is a very positive model for the way in which a Government ought to be engaging with constructive opposition at this time, and I really appreciate the Minister for making sure that that's happened.
If I may just briefly raise some specific issues. I was very pleased to hear the Minister say that the economic resilience fund—he is very conscious that it doesn't meet all the businesses he'd like it to, particularly those businesses that don't register for VAT. I'm very pleased to hear him say that that will be kept under review. I wonder if the Minister can give us an indication today about when that might be able to happen, because as I know he's aware, those very small businesses are ones who may have less put by, they may be more vulnerable and arguably may need help more quickly than larger businesses that might have more robust relationships with their banks. And speaking of banks, I want to particularly welcome what the Minister has said about, as it were, a league table for the high-street banks, about those who are being helpful and those who are not. I'd say, more broadly, I think, that the people of Wales will remember those big businesses who conducted themselves well and they will remember those that have not, and I'm sure the Minister will agree with me about that.
In his statement, the Minister mentions the UK Government's furlough scheme, the job retention scheme, and I know that we're all very pleased that that's in place, but the Minister is aware that there are some issues, and there are some gaps, and I'm grateful for the opportunity that he's given me to provide him with some evidence about particularly those people who are left behind because they've changed employment at this time—their previous employers won't furlough them, sometimes perhaps because they left without leaving a positive relationship, and new employers who would wish to do so. I wonder if the Minister can update us this afternoon about the discussions that I know he's been having with the UK Government about this, and whether he feels that there is a possibility, now the main scheme is in place—the most obvious evidence being payroll—that there is any possibility of flexibility. And, finally, the Minister has acknowledged in his responses to Russell George that there are still some gaps, and I would say, in this context, that when you're making these big steps so quickly, there will be gaps; I don't think anybody is surprised in that.
Now, when the First Minister was questioned about related issues and thinking about where the gaps are and how they are to be filled, the First Minister talked about pressing the UK Government to fill those gaps, and I'm sure none of us would disagree with that, and we all acknowledge, of course, the limited resources available to the Welsh Government. But in the past, the Minister has said—and I think he has said really this afternoon in response to Russell George—that he will look to plug some of those gaps with Wales-only schemes if he has to.
I was interested to hear him again refer to the assistance fund, the discretionary assistance fund, and I wonder whether he can give some further consideration to using that fund to provide an emergency basic income to some of those people who will be falling through the gaps, because we can't make furlough schemes for everybody, and when he thinks he will have an assessment of how many businesses and how many individual sole traders are falling through the gaps and how soon a new scheme might be able to be in place to support them. Thank you.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Helen Mary Jones again for her very kind and generous comments and the questions asked? We certainly don't have a monopoly on ideas within Welsh Government. We are seeking views, ideas and innovation from far and wide, and I've got to say, we have had a lot of constructive ideas from Members across the Chamber. I'm incredibly grateful to Helen Mary for those ideas and the intelligence as well that she and her office have been able to provide during this time.
Just reflecting on the group of individuals and small businesses that are falling through the gap regarding VAT registration, my aim is to detail phase 2 of the ERF in the coming 10 days to two weeks, so that we can essentially have a seamless movement from ERF phase 1 into phase 2, recognising that the current phase, with a requirement of, or an application total of over £180 million, will not last a significant length of time beyond—[Inaudible.] So, I do not wish to have a gap between phase 1 and phase 2 if it can be avoided. And I think you're absolutely right regarding the performance of high-street banks. Memories will live very long from this experience and people will judge and then make decisions on the basis of the performance of high-street banks and others. I do think it's right that the UK Government, if it's choosing to publish, if you like, a league table for local authority performance in England, also does the same with the banks. It's only fair, in my view, that that should be applied.
In terms of furlough—the reason I raise furlough is because, Helen Mary, you've identified a group of individuals who have fallen through the crack in terms of the cut-off date. We've been supported by the Scottish Government in our call for the date to be pushed back to 1 April. That would also capture a significant number of people who are seasonal workers within the visitor economy. I have to say, the discussions that I have with Ministers in the UK Government are always very amicable, constructive, they're open to our ideas, and, indeed, they've been able to announce changes to certain support packages based on our recommendations, based on the intelligence that we've been getting. So, they're currently considering that further extension to 1 April. A quad-call took place this afternoon during Plenary; I wasn't able to be on it so my colleague Lee Waters took my place. If there is any news about a possible extension to furlough that has come back from as a consequence of that call, I'll make sure that that information is shared with Members.
I just want to pick up on the question about to what extent we should be plugging gaps left by UK Government activities. There is only so much we can do with our finite resource. The UK Government really needs to be seen as the Government that has the extraordinarily deep pockets that we do not have, but that's not to say to say that we can't intervene in a Wales-only way—that's precisely what we did with the £0.5 billion economy resilience fund. Normally we spend—through the business and regions division of Government, business support and investment—about £30 million a year, so I do think that £500 million, £0.5 billion, demonstrates the scale of what we've done. But I think, when it comes to support such as an emergency basic income scheme, that would be incredibly expensive, probably unaffordable for the Welsh Government, certainly given the commitments we've already made. Trying to find the quantum of money that would be required for that would be nigh on impossible, but it is something that we have said to the UK Government should most certainly be considered. We're looking at how we can use the discretionary assistance fund to support more people. The demand for DAF at the moment is quite incredible, so even if we were to significantly increase the amount of money that's available through the DAF, it would not replicate, it would not offer what an alternative, emergency basic income scheme would offer. That's why we've been pretty consistent and clear in saying to the UK Government, 'Look, you can introduce this emergency scheme, it can be time-limited, but it will make a massive difference to very, very vulnerable people who are currently falling through the gaps.'

Mike Hedges AC: I'm being contacted by sole traders—driving instructors, photographers, plumbers—whose work has just ended. They've made enquiries and they've been told there is no support for them within the current system. Is that correct, and if it's not correct, can you ask whoever's giving that information out to tell them what support there is for them, because these are people who have just lost the whole of their income?
The second point I'd like to raise is about having a strategy for each economic sector. If I look at retail, for example, there are some companies who have never had it so good—online retailers and food retailers who don't have to have any special offers because they've just got a queue forming outside. They've never had it so good, it's like Christmas every week, whereas you've got other retailers who are doing no retail whatsoever.
We're seeing one major retailer failing each week, and I expect there to be far more than that of local retailers, who just will not be able to reopen. Is there anything that can be done to support some of these smaller retailers? We know their rates have gone—they've still got their rent and they've still got the other overheads. There's all of these payments they've got to make in order to just keep their building.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Mike Hedges for his contribution? I think in terms of support for those who have just recently found they've got a massive fall in their turnover, their income, as a consequence of coronavirus, they can check their eligibility through Business Wales—the online portal—for the economic resilience fund. There's also the support from the UK Government for the self-employed.
I can't comment on each and every sector at this time, and each and every business that may find themselves struggling to identify whether there is support available. The best way for a business to do that for sure is to go over to the Business Wales website and to look at the various schemes that are available there. Specifically with regard to the ERF, which is linked—the criteria are linked—to significant reductions in turnover, there is an eligibility tool that is very simple. A sole trader could go through it in a matter of minutes to be able to ascertain whether they'd be eligible for that support or any other support that Business Wales is providing advice on.
In terms of the retail sector, this is another sector that, in all likelihood, will require a lengthier period of support from Governments. There is no doubt whatsoever, though, that because of behaviour change that's going to be inspired by this period, there will be a further acceleration of the shift towards a lot of online retail. That will have knock-on effects for the nature of the high street—what a high street or what a town centre is actually going to be for in the years to come. So, work is under way in the housing and local government department concerning the town-centre-first approach, and how we can reshape town centres against this new pressure of coronavirus and the likely impact that it will have on long-term consumer trends.
That said, we are also working on the retail sector—specifically, this is work in north Wales, where we've drawn together local authorities, the economic ambition board, the retail sector itself andWelsh Government on a piece of work that has three strands to it, which includes the future of the high street. I would certainly consider extending this piece of work to the other three regions of Wales, because I think it's going to be a vital, vital concern for local authorities, for Welsh Government and for the sector.

Thank you. David Rowlands. Can somebody unmute Mr Rowlands's microphone? There we go.

David J Rowlands AC: Okay, I've done it myself. Fine.
Thank you very much, Minister, for your statement this afternoon, but also can I thank you for the regular weekly updates we get as spokespersons, which are very comprehensive and, in fact, leave very little wriggle room for questions, if I could say that?
Can I also say that I think that many of the agencies you're using for the interventions, particularly local authorities, and the Development Bank of Wales in particular—can we all thank them for the tremendous work they are doing? It's without doubt that they are stepping up to the plate.
I would like to reiterate quite a few things that Helen Mary Jones and Russell George said with regard to the ability of certain sectors to access funds. It's very difficult to know exactly where the gaps are, and we appreciate that, and also the fact that we have to remember that this is public money and there must be safeguards with regard to the scrutiny of people applying for those funds. So, we realise that there may be delays in those funds coming through.
One of the areas that I want to specifically ask about is the construction industry, where there seems to be a very mixed bag of what's going on in the construction industry. For instance, what is happening on the A465 at this moment? Is there still progress going on there or are the works closed down? What's coming back to you from the construction industry with regard to what's happening with the COVID-19 crisis?

Thank you. Minister.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank David Rowlands, Deputy Presiding Officer, for his questions, and again for his kind comments too regarding the discussions that we've had, and the contributions that Members across all parties have made in our fight against coronavirus?
I'll certainly pass on his thanks, which I'm sure are reflected across the Chamber, to local authorities, to the development bank and to Business Wales. The pressure that people within those organisations are under is quite incredible and often they are forgotten. Equally, civil servants—the pressure that they're under is just incredibly intense right now and, again, they're often not remembered amongst the applause for critical workers, but they really are doing their utmost to keep people safe and to keep our economy as healthy as it can be.
So, we're seeing actually that the Business Wales website is getting around about 0.5 million hits a week at the moment. It's quite incredible, the traffic to that site, and their staff are taking around about 250 to 300 calls each day—a really good committed team of over 40 people who are showing incredible compassion to people who are really stressed and anxious at the moment, trying to keep their businesses afloat.
Just moving on to how we spend the money, of course, you're right, we have to be concerned with fraudulent attempts to extract public money from the Welsh Government, and I've highlighted one particular area of support that have the criteria set in a way that would prevent fraudulent applications being made. It was the non-VAT registered group that unfortunately suffered as a consequence, but who we aim to be assisting in phase 2. But then there's the additional question of what sort of value—over and above keeping that company alive, keeping those people in employment—we're actually getting for the investment.
Well, I'm pleased that we've been able to introduce the economic contract into the grants process. We want to make sure we get maximum value for investment. We will be revisiting those businesses in the months to come, ensuring that they can demonstrate how they've been able to decarbonise, what they've done, in the time since signing the economic contract, to improve the health and mental health and skills of the workforce, and how they've grown as well, because we want to make sure that we invest in those businesses that are viable for the future, that are responsible businesses.
I'm going to turn briefly, if I may, to the construction sector. We've been obviously engaged in discussions across all four nations regarding construction sites and in terms of ensuring that advice for workers is as clear and accessible as possible. But the picture, as you've alluded to, David Rowlands, is not 100 per cent clear and there are currently different interpretations across all four nations, and amongst the companies, which is not entirely helpful.
The regulations that we've published with the supplementary guidance, I think provide probably the clearest guidance anywhere in the UK. And, as a consequence of that, I've had discussions with the likes of the Civil Engineering Contractors Association and skills bodies representing the construction sector. As a result of that, I think we have seen construction in a number of areas being maintained in order to support the health and economic effort that's under way right now. So, for example, construction of the Grange hospital is continuing—it's close to completion. That will provide an extra 350 invaluable hospital beds. It's right that that construction project should be completed; the A465 as well—a vital piece of economic infrastructure that will be at the heart of the regional economy and the resurgence from coronavirus in the years to come.
Other projects such as Caernarfon's Bontnewydd bypass as well, we wish to see delivered in the time frame that it was meant to be delivered, because it is of such importance to communities and to the local economy. However, that guidance must be adhered to at all times on construction sites.
I think it's also fair to say that construction will play a pivotal role in the recovery phase. We know that investment in infrastructure can provide the fastest way to grow an economy out of a recession, and we are now facing a recession. So, we're looking at how we can use not just large-scale construction projects but often smaller scale projects that benefit supply chains a little more in order to maintain work now, but also to expand employment opportunities as soon as we can, once we're through this virus.

Thank you very much. Can I just put the usual statement out that we've had a major speaker from each of the parties, so can the rest of you just ask your questions? We've got a number of people who want to ask their questions of the Minister for economy, so it's really down to you as to how many I can call. Nick Ramsay.

Nick Ramsay AC: [Inaudible.]—Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I concur with previous sentiments that we're thinking of those on the front line at the moment in our public services? And I know that the Minister for economy has stated that as well.
If I could just ask a couple of questions about the economy specifically, then transport, Minister. First of all, a number of speakers, including Russ George, have spoken about the problem of some businesses that feel that they're falling through the gaps, as it were. One of those that I spoke to recently, one business owner, is concerned that, if you qualify for rate relief, that can exclude you from the resilience fund and you can go around in circles. So, I wonder if you could clarify the situation there.
Also, I've been contacted by the owner of a soft play centre in Abergavenny only today, and she's had concerns about the criteria for applying for emergency funding, on the basis that I think you either have to be hospitality or leisure, and her business fits into neither of those. In fact, it probably fits into both and, clearly, a soft play centre, it may be something that isn't seen as important as other facilities at certain points in time, but, of course, parents, children, when we come out of this problem time that we're in, those people will be relying on it; parents will be relying on that sort of educational and play experience for their children. So, I wonder if you could look again at the categories and those businesses that might not fit strictly into one category.
And, finally on the economy, the self-employed—a local businessman, again concerned that, to be eligible for Welsh Government emergency funding, you have to have an average profit, I think, or show an average profit, over three years, and he was concerned that, actually, it's the last year that is most specific to him. So, I don't know whether you could, or ask your officials to, look into whether there could be some exceptions made in terms of the profitability of businesses.
Secondly, the second area I wanted to just mention briefly was transport and PPE availability. Firstly, public transport: a key worker at the Heath hospital who I know waited 75 minutes the other night for a bus home. I just wonder what's being done to support the bus industry at this time, particularly when it comes to our key workers and providing them transport back and forth; they're on the front line. And, of course, the bus drivers themselves and the staff with Transport for Wales—they're on the front line as well, and I wonder whether PPE has been considered for them. I know there are stresses and strains on that at the moment, but that might be something to look at going forward.
And the haulage industry, which some speakers have mentioned, and delivery drivers—Amazon and the like—they're working very hard for companies at the moment, and they are, probably, in many cases, keeping the economy moving in terms of people getting their supplies and people getting their shopping. So, I just wonder what help is being made available to companies like that to provide adequate protection for their drivers and for their staff.
Very finally, Minister, on the issue of social distancing, it's a very difficult thing to achieve on public transport,so I just wonder how you're liaising with Transport for Wales to make sure that, when it does come to this, and, indeed, when we do start coming out of the lockdown, as, hopefully, we will at some point, if there are still any social distancing implications in place, then Transport for Wales and public transport will be given the sort of support and guidance that they need.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Nick Ramsay for his questions? I'll turn to the economy questions first of all, and, in terms of the enquiries that he's had from a soft play company, I've had an incredible number of enquiries from soft play businesses that have found themselves in a similar position. It is true that they're not classed as leisure or retail or hospitality, and so they weren't able to benefit from the initial round of support. We were aware of this when we developed the ERF, and, for the most part, soft play businesses are microbusinesses or small or medium-sized enterprises. A huge number of them employ no more than nine people, so they're classed as microbusinesses. They are, for the most part, VAT registered. They've suffered, by and large, a fall of 40 per cent or more, and so they are eligible, I believe, for the microbusiness element of the economic resilience fund. That's certainly where we've been pointing soft play businesses to for appropriate support, and those details are available on Business Wales's website.
We'll take up the last question that you raised regarding the economy and how we might be able to support people who have been operating for three years, but whose profitability performance has varied quite significantly over those three years. I'll ask officials to pick up on that.
In terms of transport, we have, of course, provided the bus industry with the hardship fund. After we announced that, the UK Government made an announcement that, essentially, ensured that Scotland, Wales and England were offering the same degree of support to bus operators during this time. But we're obviously, as you can imagine, now considering how to support buses as we emerge from coronavirus, how we, as you've identified, ensure that social distancing on bus services can be maintained and what sort of support would be required to the sector in order to maintain that, with the inevitable consequence that it has in terms of the hit on the fare box, particularly for those commercially viable routes. That's something that we're actively considering now. I had a conference call with WLGA transport and economy leads this morning, and I identified a number of work streams that are taking place at the moment, and it's my intention to work with local authority partners and with the likes of the Confederation of PassangerTransport to ensure that we get the appropriate support for the industry in the future and that we develop a model for local bus services that is fit for the future as well, given that we will probably see behavioural change exist for at least the next 12 months, if not 24 months, which would and could and probably will lead to reduced patronage on bus services. That means that we have to make sure that we bring forward some of the radical ideas that we published in the White Paper, so that we're able to address some of the perception issues of bus services in order to try to drive up patronage amongst new customers, new travellers, whilst we see some existing travellers decide not to take buses because of what's happened with coronavirus, because they're fearful of getting too close to other passengers.
There are some industry best practice standards that have been developed—for example, cordoning off seats so that nobody sits within close proximity to one another, so that people are kept away from bus drivers. I have heard that, for the most part, bus companies themselves have been very responsible in ensuring that drivers are given some protection in the form of hand sanitisers and so forth. Equally, though, I have heard of one or two cases whereemployers have not been as responsible as the industry, and certainly as we, would expect. This is something that's been raised directly with them.
We're in very, very close contact, as you can imagine, with Transport for Wales over how we're going to be able to ensure that we can maintain social distancing rules once we start to emerge from coronavirus. That will obviously have an impact in terms of rolling stock provision on the most demanding lines—those lines where capacity has already been reached. This is something we're considering at the moment. Again, based on the evidence that we've been able to gather, we expect that behavioural change will lead to, at least in the short term, a drop in patronage on our railways, and we're working with TfW Rail Services in assessing how that will impact on the agreement that was reached just a few years ago on the franchise.
I think that covers pretty much everything, apart from the important point that Nick Ramsay raised about drivers, and how the private sector is also ensuring that employees are given the protection that they need. Again, there are—albeit anecdotally—varying standards that are being adopted by delivery companies. I'm keen to make sure that as we reset the economy and then as we recover from coronavirus, we develop—and I'll be very, very keen to ensure that the sectors themselves are leading on this—develop clear protocols that can be applied consistently, if possible, across the UK, which will enable a consistent approach to be applied both within the public and the private sector, so that standards in terms of social distancing for the public sector on transport can be applied also to the sort of standards that would need to be met for and on behalf of and by delivery drivers as well.

Thank you. Can I again appeal to Members? We're out of time on this statement. I will extend it to get a few more backbenchers in on this.

Ken Skates AC: Apologies.

Thank you. I'm glad you recognise—. So, can we just say short questions, shorter answers, and perhaps I'll get a few more of you in? David Rees.

David Rees AC: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister, could I also thank you for the actions you've taken as a Welsh Government to fill some of the gaps that the UK Government's business support created? It's important that we manage those businesses that are in those gaps, but as you rightly pointed out, there are still some gaps. You've answered many questions I would have wanted to raise for my colleagues on those, so I'll stick to just two points. One: there are many businesses that were supplying or had clients in both the hospitality and leisure industries, but are not directly themselves in those industries. Because their clients are no longer there, they are now losing income, and therefore they are struggling, and they were not included in the rate support or any aspect of the business support. Will you look particularly at those types of businesses to ensure that they're not getting lost? Because they were very productive in 2019, they will need to be there in 2021, and we don't want to see those types of businesses being lost as a consequence of their clients being supported, but them not being supported. That's one.
And secondly, clearly, I have a very keen interest in the steel industry, as you know. It appears that the coronavirus business interruption loan scheme aspect of the UK Government also is not going to include the steel sector in that. Will you meet with the UK Government, Minister, to see what can be done for industries such as Tata and others who are perhaps in the larger sector of the economy, but are struggling again because their clients are not having demand for steel as a consequence of the actions, and they're going to struggle? So they will be needing some support, but again, they are again falling outside the criteria. So we look at the UK Government agenda on that, because that is a business support question for the UK Government, but you need to press the case for that sector in Wales.

Ken Skates AC: I thank Dai Rees for his questions. In terms of steel, this is something that is being raised by us on a weekly basis with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, and I'm pleased that, during the course of recognising that CBILS was not supporting all businesses, and not supporting in particular that missing middle of businesses with a turnover of £45 million, revisions were made to enable support to be forthcoming. In addition, the limit of a £25 million loan has been reviewed, and I'm pleased that our call for that to be increased has been agreed to, but we are continually pressing the UK Government to ensure that there is recognition that Tata in particular is in need of support. We will do what we can in the Welsh Government to support Tata and its many sites in Wales, but UK Government clearly has a key role in supporting this sector, and Tata in particular, and we've said to the UK Government on numerous occasions now that an intervention concerning steel can't then just lead to a Barnettised share for the Welsh Government, because that would lead to nowhere in terms of the size of the steel sector in Wales compared to the UK as a whole. So, it needs to be a UK-led initiative to assist that particular sector.
You're right, we are constantly trying to fill gaps. I'm pleased to say that, as a result of the economic resilience fund and the other funds that we've been able to deliver, we've been able to support directly almost one fifth of Welsh businesses now, and that is in addition to the UK Government's schemes, the job retention schemes and support for the self-employed, which have benefited many, many more.
In terms of the suppliers to the hospitality sector, you're absolutely right, Dai, there are a large number of businesses that fell out of the sector categorisation to be able to draw down the initial tranche of support, but through the economic resilience fund, they would be eligible because, of course, they're microbusinesses and there's no doubt that they've seen their turnover fall by at least 40 per cent. In all likelihood, if they're supplying predominantly or primarily to the hospitality sector and they're a small or medium-sized enterprise, then they will have seen their turnover down by more than 60 per cent. So the economic resilience fund was designed with those suppliers to those key sectors that have pretty much hibernated in mind.

Neil Hamilton AC: The Minister said in his statement that whilst a lot has been done, there's still a lot to do, and that's certainly true. The Government has effectively put most of the economy into a kind of medically induced coma and many businesses fear, with some justification, they're not going to come out of that coma alive, so it's vitally important that we start the gradual process of lifting restrictions as soon as we can and in the smartest way possible, so that we protect the public's health as well as the health of the economy.
In Mid and West Wales, we've got huge dependence on farming, tourism, hospitality, et cetera, and a lot of these businesses are going to fall through the gaps, which have been mentioned already, in the various funds that are available to try to cope with the consequences of the lockdown. Farms, for example, are excluded from the economic resilience fund, as I understand it, because they are almost, by definition, in receipt of publicly funded grants through the common agricultural policy. And yet we've seen the dairy industry face a 25 to 30 per cent fall in demand for milk, we've seen the livestock sector similarly suffering with high-end high-value cuts of meat no longer being used by hotels, restaurants, et cetera. A lot of these businesses are going to be on the margins, and they can't be helped under the existing schemes.
Similarly, I was very disappointed to hear that the reason for using the VAT threshold as a qualification for applications for the ERF was due to fraud. There are many, many ways of countering fraud apart from looking at the information that is available to the VAT authorities. So I hope that that's going to be reconsidered. Let me give you one example of a business that is certainly not fraudulent but is a microbusiness: the Penmaenpool toll bridge near Dolgellau isn't going anywhere and the people who own the bridge aren't going anywhere either, but they fall through all these gaps because they're not registered for VAT. They're wholly dependent on income from tourism to keep the bridge going. It's a tourist attraction. A lot of businesses like that are just going to go out of business unless some help reaches them pretty soon. So I hope that the Minister will take a more flexible view of this in his reconsideration of the existing rules and, in a couple of weeks' time, come up with some kind of more flexible discretionary scheme, whereby, because we won't cover every possible example in a set of rules, there'll be some kind of discretionary mechanism whereby businesses that fall through the gaps can be reconsidered.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Neil Hamilton for his questions and say that the idea of a bursary would be a discretionary scheme? That's something that we're actively looking at. We've relaxed our attitude to risk, and that includes the risk of fraud, in order to get money out of the door as fast as possible to as many as possible. But in terms of the ERF, I've already outlined how there have already been 8,100 and something applications that need to be processed as fast as possible. Ensuring that we do that with the minimum number of fraudulent cases, it made sense to apply the VAT criteria, but we were very clear when we launched ERF phase 1 that we were also looking at how we can assist in phase 2 those who are not VAT registered, and we will do that with the second phase. But I would want to make sure that we avoid widespread and significant fraud, because every £10,000 grant that goes to a fraudulent applicant is £10,000 that will not go to microbusinesses that could survive in Wales. So, it's absolutely vital that we do get the money to proper, decent businesses that do truly exist, and not fraudsters.
I prefer to use the term 'hibernation' rather than 'coma', but your point is correct; that's precisely what we're trying to do. We effectively put certain sectors into a state of hibernation, making sure, working with the UK Government, that they can survive and that their employees are getting some income during the coronavirus period. They can then be woken as we deliver a phased emergence from coronavirus, and it's our intention to ensure that that emergence is conducted on the basis of activities and sectors, rather than on a place-based or age-related basis.
It's worth saying with regard to farms, farms that have diversified and have additional businesses can apply for the ERF, but for the reasons that Neil Hamilton has already outlined, farms that have not diversified are not eligible. I'm aware with regard to the dairy sector, having spoken to Calon Wen, having spoken with other businesses that are operating in this sector, and I'm aware of the tremendous struggle that is taking place right now. We don't have any drying facilities as far as I'm aware in the UK, so there is concern that milk will be poured away. We're seeing the gate price fall to an incredibly low rate. That's pretty unacceptable in my view, given that dairy farmers are contributing so much to the effort to keep people healthy right now. And so, I've raised the plight of the dairy sector in my weekly calls with the Secretary of State for Wales who shares my concern as well, and also with counterparts across the devolved administrations, and of course with BEIS. I do welcome what was announced last week in terms of competition laws, but, of course, we are alive to what is a rapidly changing situation, and I'll make representations for the dairy sector in the coming weeks to UK Government, so that we can get the support that's required for it.

Leanne Wood AC: I've written to you, Minister, about a number of businesses that have fallen through the gaps that everybody has been talking about in the provision to prevent unemployment and the collapse of businesses as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. One of these businesses doesn't qualify for financial support because it's not VAT registered and run from home. Now, the business owner has tried to get finance from a bank in the form of a business interruption loan to keep the business running, but the minimum amount that they say they can lend is £25,000, and that's too much. Many other self-employed people have been in touch to say that they can't receive the financial support that's available as well, and income for most of these people now has dried up and they're surviving on savings if they've got them. These are all cases that have checked against the eligibility criteria, so how can you assist the groups of businesses and individuals that have missed out on this support? Universal income would be one solution to that, but is there something special that you can do for this particular group of people? How can you prevent these many good businesses from going to the wall?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Leanne for her questions? I think it's worth saying that one of the specific cases that you outlined would have been eligible for a small loan from the Development Bank of Wales. Twenty five thousand pounds may be too much; the Development Bank of Wales's COVID-19 loan scheme offers smaller loans at very favourable interest rates with a year-long holiday. Now, that's been fully subscribed, but as I said previously to earlier questions, the development bank is looking at the second phase of the COVID-19 loan fund, so it may well be that the business you highlighted will be eligible for that second phase of support. Of course, there's also the role I've alluded to of the high-street banks in this regard as well. And it's not just coronavirus business interruption loan schemes that the high-street banks have access to; they can help their existing customers in many, many ways, whether it be with favourable terms on extended overdrafts, or favourable terms in terms of loans. It's absolutely vital that high-street banks step up to the mark in this regard. And I've already outlined the rationale for not including in phase 1 of the ERF those businesses that are not VAT registered, and I've given Members assurance that this is very, very much at the forefront of our minds as we develop phase 2.
Leanne is right that, in many respects, the support that needs to be offered to people who have fallen through the gap is welfare support, and we accept in Welsh Government we have a role. The UK Government have a very significant role as well, and I've already mentioned that work is under way to examine the role of the discretionary assistance fund as far as the Welsh Government is concerned.

Thank you. Mohammad Asghar.

Mohammad Asghar (Oscar) AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Minister, thank you very much for your statement. My point is, my very good friend in the last two weeks passed away from coronavirus, and his son died this morning, and the second son is already in the ICU in the Royal Gwent Hospital. My question to you is that I am still very surprised that no Assembly Member has mentioned the bereaved families in Wales. What is the availability of financial support for those loved ones, who are not only their loved ones but also the breadwinners of the family? What is the financial assistance that is available to those families in these days?
And, secondly, I'm also involved and in touch with so many businesses who applied to the Welsh development bank for borrowing, and there is a standard letter coming to those businesses who have already been involved in business for so many years. They've submitted the accounts and everything, and a standard letter is coming to them that they don't meet the criteria. There are no contact details for these people to go back and ask them for the criteria.
There are quite a few other questions, Minister, but I think, because we're short of time, I think, on these two areas, I would like you to explain to me how you can help them.

Thank you. Minister.

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, and can I send my deepest sympathies to Mohammad Asghar's friends and family? It's a terrible time at the moment. I've heard many, many stories of people I work with losing loved ones. It is a tragic period, and it is very painful for those who are financially stretched. That is precisely what the discretionary assistance fund was set up to help people with—people who cannot afford to make ends meet in ordinary times, but in this period, of course, it is especially difficult.
I know the First Minister took questions earlier today regarding the costs associated with the loss of life for families. I think it's important to note that the DAF is probably the most suitable channel of support for individuals in that position.
And, then, with regard to the standard letter that is being issued, I'm afraid that standard letters are being issued because of the speed of response that's required right now, and the need to minimise administration and bureaucracy, so that we can ensure that as many people as possible in the development bank and Business Wales, and Welsh Government and so forth, are actually at the front line administering and delivering grants and financial support.
Criteria for support should be very, very transparent to everybody now, whether it's through the development bank, or whether it's online, provided by Business Wales, through the coronavirus portal. I would urge you, and any businesses that approach you, to first of all look at the criteria that is published online, and if there are then subsequent questions that need to be answered, then please do e-mail me.

Thank you. And, finally, Dawn Bowden.

Dawn Bowden AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I think I'm just down to one point now, Minister, seeing as all the others have been covered. In fact, one on the VAT gap has been asked by about half a dozen Members in different ways. So, I'll skip that one and I'll go straight to my point, which is on the business insurance. Now, thank you for writing to me about that just recently, because I understand you're now going to be meeting with the insurance industry to talk to them about that. And while I fully appreciate that regulation of the insurance industry isn't devolved, I'm sure I can't be alone in having businesses contact me about the attitude being taken by insurers, causing significant stress to a number of individuals, who thought they had cover—in fact, even their own brokers thought that they had cover, but the insurance companies themselves seem to be taking a different view. It seems to be particularly prevalent in the hospitality sector, but it's not exclusively in that sector.
And if I can just give two very brief examples: one is a business interruption clause in the policy, but it then requires a letter from Government to say that the business has to close to make that condition valid. How in reality is Government in a position to provide such letters to every company in that situation, I'm not sure. And another example was where a social club had insurance to say that, if they had to close due to contagious disease, then they are covered, only to find that that clause doesn't mean a pandemic. So, therefore, they're not covered.
Can you confirm to us the best ways in which we might be able to help in terms of bringing issues to your attention that might assist you in discussions with the UK Government and the insurance industry to ensure that insurance companies are not wriggling their way out of responsibilities and leaving all of the onus on Government to help these companies that have paid into insurance policies for many, many years?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Dawn Bowden for raising a concern that a number of politicians have also flagged up with me? You're absolutely right, Dawn, that, in some respects, some insurers are trying to find any way possible to avoid paying out on claims. That's not acceptable, and you're right that Ministers are speaking with the ABI—the Association of British Insurers—this afternoon. That discussion began about 30 minutes ago. I was meant to be part of it, and I've asked my colleague, Jeremy Miles, to chair it. We will report back to Members on the outcome of that discussion. But if there are any cases that need to be highlighted to Government, there is a specific business COVID-19 e-mail that I'd urge Members to pass on to businesses. It is, quite simply: business.covid-19@gov.wales.
And you're right that businesses, particularly in the events sector, are finding that their insurance policies were not detailed enough, that they didn't get sufficient cover to ensure that they could apply for a successful claim in the event of a pandemic of this type. The problem that I personally have with insurance businesses in this regard is that, sometimes, the small print is too small to be read, and some glaring holes that should be flagged up with customers as they are purchasing their insurance policies are not highlighted to them. I think there is a role in the insurance industry to offer more transparent means of sharing vital information with their customers.

Thank you very much, Minister. And my apologies to those of you who'd indicated that you would want to have asked questions, but I have extended the time significantly on this statement.

Points of Order

We now move to a point of order. I have two points of order I have notice of. The first one is from Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: I have two points of order to raise, Deputy Presiding Officer. I've got two points of order to raise.

Yes, I've just called you to speak.

Neil McEvoy AC: Okay, thank you. The first one is maintenance of order, 13.9, where the Presiding Officer must call to order any Member who, point (iv), is guilty of unbecoming conduct or, point (v), is using disorderly or offensive language. I think it's pretty clear that most of us heard certain things said by the Minister earlier, but nothing at all was said. So, I'd like that flagged up. I'd like it dealt with in the next session, please, because I think it's very important that all AMs are treated equally.
Moving on to the second point—

Okay, thank you. Can I just, on that point, say that there is another point of order coming in on that, and that was not what you gave us notice of for your point of order? So, move to the point of order you gave me notice for, please.

Neil McEvoy AC: Okay. It's Standing Order 12.56, which gives Members the right to put questions in formally to the First Minister and get a reply. I think it's ridiculous that the Presiding Officer is continuing to enact Standing Order 34.18, in order to end the need for the Welsh Government to take questions from Assembly Members, as well as other business. There is no public health issue in the Assembly meeting now, because we're meeting virtually from our homes. Therefore, there is no health issue, and therefore there is no need for us to have a different kind of agenda. We should be returning to full business. Westminster is sitting, the Scottish Parliament is sitting. We need to get the economy working towards getting out of this lockdown and we have to start our National Assembly working normally. And the Standing Orders being relied upon are simply not credible. There is no public health issue now, because we are sitting virtually, so we should have a normal agenda, and that's my point of order.

Thank you very much for that and thank you for the notice on that. Can we say that the Business Committee did agree and have done considerable work on this and we did agree that we would introduce Standing Order 34 in order to put our work and our workload there. We were the first Parliament, as you know, to sit virtually. In view of the fact that requirements around oral questions and questions was an issue that was discussed, it was decided that we would go for statements from Ministers in the area of public health that is now COVID-19, and that is still the case. However, just to reassure you that we are constantly—the Llywydd and the Business Committee—reviewing the situation and we will look at how we can return to a more packed agenda in future. Thank you.
Point of order, then, Siân Gwenllian.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. There was an incident earlier this afternoon when we heard the Minister for health being insulting towards a fellow Member who was asking entirely valid questions in the name of scrutiny and of holding the Government to account. Has the Minister made a request to you to make a statement about that incident and will you look into this to see whether any rules or procedures relating to the Senedd and Plenary were contravened during that event?

Can I thank the Member for that point of order? As you realise, working virtually, it is quite difficult and I'm not aware, and the Presiding Officer may have had contact. However, we will review the situation and we will come back to you. But thank you very much for raising that and for giving us notice of it—I appreciate that. But we will return to that, and if there is anything to inform the Plenary of, we certainly will do that in normal circumstances. Diolch.

5. The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) Regulations 2020

So, that takes us now to item 5, which is the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) Regulations 2020, which has been postponed until 29 April. And, therefore, that brings today's proceedings to a close. So, diolch yn fawr iawn; thank you very much, everybody.

The meeting ended at 17:13.